WI: Germany Expands to the Urals - Could It Have Settled the Land?

Let's assume Nazi Germany defeats the Allies in World War II and annexes eastern Europe all the way up to either the Volga River or the Ural Mountains. Hitler plans to eliminate about 30 million of the original inhabitants by forced starvation, exile to Siberia, systematic methods, and more. Something like remaining 15 million are to be Geramanized or made into slave labor for the German colonization of these new lands. Millions of German settlers are hoped to replace the Slavs, Poles, Jews, and Russians set to be exterminated by 1970 and create an unstarvable breadbasket. Is it possible or feasible for Germany, with a population of about 70 million residents at the time, to settle such a vast area of land and successfully colonize it in only a few decades?
 
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They can force people to go for the "good of the Aryan race" or something. Have towns sporadically so that no chunk of land over 100 square miles has a population density of one or less.

The most important think will be getting the borders. Settle along the mountains, the seas, and the international borders; you need to stop the enemy from deterring your task.

Assuming Germany does it perfectly systematically and holds off the Allies for at least two decades (best case scenario would be five or more) they might be able to make it.
 
30 million is a bit of a low number for Generalplan Ost's death toll; 3 times that is more likely, given that it'll be very difficult post war for Nazi Germany to properly regulate food supply and distribution; combine that with a basic disdain for the people being occupied, systemic cruelty, and neglect of basic services, and the result is "excess" deaths of tens of millions more through famine, massacre, exposure, and disease.

Anyways, extermination of the large city populations through mass starvation and slave labor would go fairly smoothly; they could be cleared, reduced, and rebuilt as populated "German" cities (Really just moderately-sized towns) within 5-10 years. After that the settlement of the countryside will take much longer, and most likely fail. Nazi farming communities, organized by politicians rather than people actually knowledgeable about agriculture and populated by people with no basic skills needed to be a farmer, won't last very long. They won't be productive on the scale the Nazis wanted for several decades, and many communities will be abandoned. Nazi attempts to colonize the East will fail to establish a strong foothold.

The simple fact is that Nazi policies in the East were impossible to achieve. Much of Russia would be devastated and take years to rebuild. Infrastructure would need to be rebuilt and expanded on a massive scale. Mines, farms, etc would fall into disrepair as their workers are killed or flee. A decade after the German "victory" in the East, Russia would still be costing it far more to manage than whatever profit could be extracted. While settlers will be brought in for the first few years, their communities won't be self sustaining or profitable. By 1970 domestic agriculture will be producing a fraction of what it did pre-war, mostly for consumption by the local communities in Russia! Coal, steel, etc would be produced in minuscule amounts.

The final result is an enormous drain on Nazi Germany's resources for no short term gain, no long term gain, and no serious settlements beyond a few large towns. 90+ million people are slaughtered for no result, and European Russia is devastated for centuries to come.
 
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the Generalplan Ost, death toll would be more than 60 million people !
the surviving 20% population would held as slaves.
the Germans who settle in manors surrounding a Wehrmacht garrison town who given them protection, plus a SS-Castel.
First generation settlers would veterans of Wehrmacht and there family later people of overcrowded Germans city,
on later phase also germanized Netherlands, Flemish, Danes and Norwegians had to be stettled here
also will be entire Population moved to new location, like the Tyrolese from the Italian Alps to Volga near Stalingrad (now complete destroy).

of course this will to thin out German population monumental !
Hitler had his ideas about a solution: in The Third Reich the Woman had Only one Right: birthright. means give so many birth for the fuhrer,
while Himmler had also very sick idea: Lebensborn.
also abortion was forbidden.
 
the Generalplan Ost, death toll would be more than 60 million people !
the surviving 20% population would held as slaves.
the Germans who settle in manors surrounding a Wehrmacht garrison town who given them protection, plus a SS-Castel.
First generation settlers would veterans of Wehrmacht and there family later people of overcrowded Germans city,
on later phase also germanized Netherlands, Flemish, Danes and Norwegians had to be stettled here
also will be entire Population moved to new location, like the Tyrolese from the Italian Alps to Volga near Stalingrad (now complete destroy).

of course this will to thin out German population monumental !
Hitler had his ideas about a solution: in The Third Reich the Woman had Only one Right: birthright. means give so many birth for the fuhrer,
while Himmler had also very sick idea: Lebensborn.
also abortion was forbidden.

Sounds like the German economy would crash and burn inside ten years, tops. Slaughtering and rebuilding a Russia so thoroughly devastated it would make Carthage look good all by itself would be a monumental task; throwing in forced resettlement, rebuilding from the damage of WWII, and everything that could go wrong there and that system is going to overheat like crazy. By the time it's all over Europe is going to look like North Korea writ large but worse.
 
With all that Lebensborn and stuff I ask myself how big Germany population would grow?

How's it going to feed, house, and educate said population if all the money is being poured into economic sinkholes like runaway military spending, megalomaniacal architecture, and has to rebuild a shattered continent with the resources of just said shattered continent? Odds are the planned baby boom would have made an unstable situation worse; one of the main factors behind the Arab Spring was a large, unemployed, and disillusioned youth (18-30) population.
 
While the Soviet Union would still be an Asiatic power, unless Hitler followed Rosenberg's suggestion of a Reichskommisariat Turkestan, in which case Germany would likely have overextended its resources even more, and the Russian Far East would still be unconquered.

If these actions had led to famine among Germans, I can see them having to eat their words big-time. Don't send in the Red Cross. Send in the Red Magen-David.
 
...Odds are the planned baby boom would have made an unstable situation worse; one of the main factors behind the Arab Spring was a large, unemployed, and disillusioned youth (18-30) population.

Perhaps a better analogy would be the Sixties in the West. Imagine a Nazi Woodstock generation...
 
Sounds like the German economy would crash and burn inside ten years, tops. Slaughtering and rebuilding a Russia so thoroughly devastated it would make Carthage look good all by itself would be a monumental task; throwing in forced resettlement, rebuilding from the damage of WWII, and everything that could go wrong there and that system is going to overheat like crazy. By the time it's all over Europe is going to look like North Korea writ large but worse.

you absolute right, LHB
the total cost on the Generalplan Ost (destroy Moscow, leningrad and Stalingrad. building the settlements, garrison, SS castle, Deutsche Autobahn and "Hitler Toy railway")
were estimated some were at 144 billion Reichsmark, or 636 Billion Euro.
Next to that was Nazi Architecture Madness with price tag of 500 billion Reichsmark or 2.21 Trillion Euro !
 
Sounds like the German economy would crash and burn inside ten years, tops. Slaughtering and rebuilding a Russia so thoroughly devastated it would make Carthage look good all by itself would be a monumental task; throwing in forced resettlement, rebuilding from the damage of WWII, and everything that could go wrong there and that system is going to overheat like crazy. By the time it's all over Europe is going to look like North Korea writ large but worse.

I havea feeling, that about 2 year would suffice. Right after they start executing (uhh... more suitable word pls?) generalplan ost. Immense manpower needs, immense material needs only to destroy.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
They would have tried, probably even forced Germans to move there. Still, I don't think it would have ended as the Nazis had hoped. I suspect many Germans forcibly moved there would try to sneak back into Germany, which forces the Nazis to increase security, not only to keep the natives in check, but to make the East basically a prison for the colonists so they don't leave.
 

Kongzilla

Banned
Half of the stuff isn't going to be built anyway though. Hitler is going to die by '55 latest. Himmler and Heydrich will be murdered. And someone like Goring and Speer are going to take over the Reichs President and Reichs Chancellorship. The death toll in Russia will be massive but it will be done to those deemed economically useless. Slave labour will create manpower for most of the industry, mining, construction and anything else that can use unpaid labour. Even jobs like nannies and Bell boys might be taken up by those deemed "Untermensch" effectively taking the jobs of the German lower class.


I'm not entirely sure but I think Hitler even mentioned something about using the system the British put in place in India. Not sure, I think it was mentioned somewhere. That means German overseers with Russians taking over actually running it pretty much. Once Hitler dies, the dreams of Lebensraum are going to fade and then finally die out once Whoever takes over dies as well.

At least that's what I've gathered from the research I've done for the Nazi-American cold war. That or I'm blowing it all out of my ass.
 
As I said earlier, it's impossible for the Nazis to "manage" the death toll. They'll certainly try, but due to mismanagement, economic devastation, mistreatment, disease, etc tens of millions more will die. And as the Nazis didn't particularly care nothing will be done to help the people they've conquered.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
As I said earlier, it's impossible for the Nazis to "manage" the death toll. They'll certainly try, but due to mismanagement, economic devastation, mistreatment, disease, etc tens of millions more will die. And as the Nazis didn't particularly care nothing will be done to help the people they've conquered.
And probably nothing will be done to help the Germans they force to move there, so high death tolls for both the original population and the "colonists".
 
Settlement might well fall under SS auspices

There already was the whole "have a legion of children and we salute you" culture, with Goebbels the public face of this.

Behind the scenes would be SS breeding farms

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
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