WI Germany doesn't invade Eastern Europe?

What if Germany only went to the west? Without being weakened by the USSR, would they have had enough military strength to invade Britain (and maybe annex their "allies" Italy and Spain)?
 
Their economy collapses within 8-10 months, then the USSR invades.

Nothing good comes of this, even worse than OTL.

<edit> oh and no they don't have the Navy or shipping or expertise to invade Britain no mater what they do in the East.
 
While the German economy was based on the principle of "Build shit to blow up, blow up shit with that shit you build, rinse and repeat" and was one which wasn't practical as a result, could fighting only the west satisfy this enough to avoid them collapsing as stated above? Perhaps putting the industries of their occupied states into use to soften economic downfall?

They could perhaps keep a secure empire and occupy France, but I doubt they could take on Britain, and very much doubt they'd absorb Spain and Italy (unless Italy suffers a similar fate as the OTL).
 
Their economy collapses within 8-10 months, then the USSR invades.

Nothing good comes of this, even worse than OTL.

<edit> oh and no they don't have the Navy or shipping or expertise to invade Britain no mater what they do in the East.

I would proberly use the political argument, stating nazi ideology seeking Lebensraum in the East, but if somehow the Germans only went West...

I know the economy in Germany is strained, but if they as in the OTL defeats France and the Benelux, their economy would be strenghtened. Regarding the USSR...in order to get to Germany they have to go through Poland, which would mean war with the UK, and give the Germans due warning....so I don't neccesarily see an easy Soviet win.....I just see the scenario as implausible, due to the political reasons stated above.
 

celt

Banned
What if Germany only went to the west? Without being weakened by the USSR, would they have had enough military strength to invade Britain (and maybe annex their "allies" Italy and Spain)?

Do they still take over Bohemia/Moravia?
As I think they needed that injection of industry and military hardware for the war.
 
I would call it physically impossible with Hitler in charge, and looking that way otherwise.

The simple fact is that as long as Poland has Danzig and the Corridor, then they will be the victim of a declaration of war before the French and British. Ditto for the Sudetenland.

Now, after the war with Poland if Hitler gets blown up/shot, then we can talk about a war only against the West, but apart from some reparations, regaining Eupen-Malmedy and possibly parts of Alsace-Lorraine, we're not going to see a wholesale annexation/long term occupation of western Europe.
 
I am assuming since Hitler does not invade Poland, the war starts with an attack on Denmark or the Benelux

The problem here though is this:

Fundamentally, there is no real claim on Denmark (as North Schleswig not just wasn't German, but voted to leave Germany, while the rest of Schleswig joined Germany), and in the Benelux there is only Eupen-Malmedy and possibly Luxembourg.

Meanwhile there's the entirety of the Polish Corridor, including the Danzig and the possibility of relinking East Prussia to the rest of Germany. This in any sort of strategic, tactical, political or economic view is more important than the gains that can be made in Belgium, Luxembourg or Denmark, and quite possibly France as well. Once you add in the Sudetenland, the major case if for at least some sort of war in the east.
 
This question comes up a lot, and he answer stays the same: Nazi ideology was built from the ground up on the idea of an invasion of the Soviet Union. As long as Hitler remains in power, Germany will invade Russia, communism will be purged fromt he face of the Earth, and all that land in the East will given to the aryan race.

Doubly so as all parties involved were aware that the USSR was gaining strength as time went on, and by 1942 there would be very little hope of success.
 
Their economy collapses within 8-10 months, then the USSR invades.

Nothing good comes of this, even worse than OTL.

<edit> oh and no they don't have the Navy or shipping or expertise to invade Britain no mater what they do in the East.

That's assuming that the Soviet Union wanted to invade which was complete bollocks.
 
Hitler's entire motivation was to secure lebensraum in the East. Other than humbling his country's rival, France, he had no real interest in the West.

Also, building a navy is much, much harder than building an army. Capital ships are incredibly expensive. Only nations safe from foreign invasion can invest the expense to do so (generally island countries like Great Britain or Japan and the United States which achieved decisive control of North America by 1850). And building a naval tradition is hard work that requires prolonged experience and know how. Germany had just started building that around 1890 and then had it interrupted for about 20 years. It's not something that can be instantly created in 5 years or so.

If Germany did concentrate only on Britain, the Mediterranean becomes the decisive theatre. There is a strong possibility that Japan still moves south in 1941, and the Germans and Japanese will attempt to link up in Asia. It will be very tough for the UK (and eventually the US) to hold out, but they can do so. The Allies probably concentrate on taking out Japan, which they will do in 1945/1946. In the European theatre, they probably only have North Africa and some Mediterranean islands when the first atomic bombs are produced. Then the Allies rain atomic holocaust over German cities in 1946/1947 and land troops ont he continent only when the German economy has completely collapse and the Reich is in chaos.

Of course, that is assuming the Soviets do nothing. Stalin is not much of a gambler. He wants easy wins in collusion with other great powers. If Hitler does not move against him, I don't see why he wouldn't agree to Stalin's idea of the USSR joining the Tripratite Pact - which may mean the USSR enters the war against Britain and takes Persia. In which case, all bets of an Allied victory are now off. Or, Stalin sits tight until he sees Germany begin losing in 1944/1945. Plans for an attack are made, and after atomic bombs fall on German cities, he strikes pushing as far west as he can.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
1. Get rid of Hitler
2. Annexing Italy and Spain is ASB. Even annexing France is ASB. Invading Britain require a prewar PoD
3. This all still smell ASB.
 
What would have happened if instead of going east against the USSR, if the Germans went through Turkey and invaded the Middle East, dividing the spoils with the Soviets if necessary?
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
What would have happened if instead of going east against the USSR, if the Germans went through Turkey and invaded the Middle East, dividing the spoils with the Soviets if necessary?
Still, with Hitler in charge there's no way the Germans won't attack the USSR. And I don't think Stalin would be happy about Germany stretching to the Middle East.
 
What would have happened if instead of going east against the USSR, if the Germans went through Turkey and invaded the Middle East, dividing the spoils with the Soviets if necessary?

It's not like Turkey can just be gone through like that. There's mountains and water and a lot of unhappy Turks there. Not to mention that would require the Germans to secure control of the entire Balkans and come to play in Britain and France's backyard. It might work, especially if Stalin actually agrees to such a harebrained scheme, but it will hurt them badly.
 
The fact that the Nazi economy relies on a continual supply of loot is the problem here, without it I'm not sure they can survive.
 
It's not like Turkey can just be gone through like that. There's mountains and water and a lot of unhappy Turks there. Not to mention that would require the Germans to secure control of the entire Balkans and come to play in Britain and France's backyard. It might work, especially if Stalin actually agrees to such a harebrained scheme, but it will hurt them badly.

Of course, given Soviet stubborness over Bulgaria, the Germans actually seizing control of the Turkish straits it going to set alarm bells whooping and clanging.
 
LOL, I Blame Communism is answering a question posed by Socialist :)

The OP's question only makes logical sense AFTER the Polish War, with Nazi Germany in an alliance with the USSR and able to be victorious over France and then consider their options

Basically, if you remove Hitler but keep the Nazi power structure intact then you're really only looking at 2 options that were on the table - Sealion, or the Mediterranean Strategy

Turkey was leaning towards the Axis at this period so if things go very well in N Africa it is possible they would join and therefore open up a route through their country, not by force but by co-operation

Without Hitler, the USSR can simply be dealt with by admitting them to the Axis, which is what Molotov's mission to Berlin was intended to achieve. Also without Hitler, a Vichy-led France could have been admitted to the Axis to, as several proposed it.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Somewhat true at least....but isn't there plenty of loot to the West and North?

Not the right kind, largely. There is a reason Britain and France had colonial empires, after all. Russias was full of natural resources and open spaces that Hitler figured the Germans needed. Not that they didn't steal anything that wasn't nailed down in Western Europe, but it was stealing, not murder and robbery.

Another thing we have to keep in mind is that the Nazis had some really strange ideas. Killing off millions of Slavs and steal their stuff would be OK with them, but killing millions (or even a few ten thousand) Western Europeans would not be. They'd think of themselves as murderers. It's weird, but a lot of Germans in all positions felt that way. They condoned things in Russia or Poland that wouldn't fly in France or the Netherlands, and whewn troops from the Eastern front brought in their habits later in the war, lots of local commanders were horrified.
 
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