WI German navy destroys British navy in Jutland.

As the question asked the grand fleet is destroyed and most of the British admirals and officers present at the battle die, how would that effect the war.
 

CalBear

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Since this would, quite literally, require divine intervention (the British BB were invulnerable at all combat ranges to the largest HSF guns) it is fair to assume that Germany, blessed by God, wins the war.
 
As the question asked the grand fleet is destroyed and most of the British admirals and officers present at the battle die, how would that effect the war.

Come on, you're not supposed to blurt out every brain fart that comes your way.

And FFS, it's affect!
 
If the Germans win the battle would they need to use u-boats as much as they did, we could see america just watch the war from the sidelines.
 
I'm curious as to how this could possibly happen seeing as the only way the Grand Fleet's brass could screw up that badly would require them switching to a lead paint smoothie diet for a year before Jutland. The only upshot to this scenario is they'd be KIAed, otherwise I wouldn't be surprised if the British brought back drawing and quartering for the moron who lost the Grand Fleet to the High Seas Fleet.
 

Tyr Anazasi

Banned
Well, there was a chance, that this could happen, even though not in this extent. During the night battle the German torpedo boats and destroyers did not find the British main fleet. POD would be here they do and make a successful strike on the British fleet to take out a substantial part of the battlefleet, perhaps even finished off by the German fleet passing by after.

So the British fleet would be reduced, there is the question to the extent.

1. A total destruction of most ships would have been unlikely. If this case happened though the German fleet would rule the seas and Britain had to make peace immediately. If they didn't they had to retain more forces in Britain to be able to fight off a German invasion. These men missing in France would lead to an eventual defeat there.

This could also lead to the ongoing neutrality of other states, especially Romania. Also the Germans would not make a total submarine war as they had the majority.

2. If only a part of the fleet was destroyed so that the ratios of both fleets are about 1:1 in BBs the British might have continued the war. The consequences though are very similar like above. The British would still have to guard their own island much more.
 
The best hope for the Germans would have been to isolate and destroy a detached part of the British fleet so as to redress the numerical disparity between the 2 fleets. The German navy was superior unit for unit to the British, and its standard of gunnery was far higher, as the cruiser action at Jutland demonstrated. Contrary to what Calbear states, armour distribution in German ships was better, and more advanced metallurgical techniques in Germany meant that the German 12 inch gun had equal performance to the 13.5 gun that was standard on the British dreadnoughts. For a discussion of these technical issues, refer to the section on Admiral Jellicoe in the book "The Swordbearers" by Corelli Barnett.
 
Since this would, quite literally, require divine intervention (the British BB were invulnerable at all combat ranges to the largest HSF guns) it is fair to assume that Germany, blessed by God, wins the war.

*AHEM*

Webcomic_xkcd_-_Wikipedian_protester.png
 

elkarlo

Banned
Since this would, quite literally, require divine intervention (the British BB were invulnerable at all combat ranges to the largest HSF guns) it is fair to assume that Germany, blessed by God, wins the war.

Well it did seem like God was angry at protected/armored cruisers that day
 
As the question asked the grand fleet is destroyed and most of the British admirals and officers present at the battle die, how would that effect the war.

In case it has not been mentioned: a navy is not possible to be destroyed in one go. It simply takes a lot of time to defeat a major naval power to a level it becomes irrelevant. The Imperial Japanese navy for instance lasted for almost four long years, before it was ultimately destroyed to extintion, appart from a very limmited number of coastal vessels still in some working order.

About winning a battle most have already said enough, Winning one battle does not mean winning a war, sicne a war is fought at many fronts normally, including the sea, besides a nation fighting another nation will need to develop long term strategies to defeat their opponent.
 

cpip

Gone Fishin'
The HSF had not deployed any guns bigger than 12". Bayern (15") was working up.
The QE had a 13" belt... that might be why.

I think "invulnerable" is overstating the point a bit, given the damage that Warspite and Malaya took, and the fact that the German dreadnoughts all managed to survive the pounding of the British guns as well including the 15" shells; and even the survival of the German battlecruisers speaks well of their construction.

All of which can be summed up with "it's rather harder than you think to sink a heavy fleet unit (BB or BC) during this period". It's somewhat easier to mission-kill one -- but both sides had rather good repair yards, and the British were of course building ships faster than the Germans were.

It's a possibility, to be sure, that the Germans could've inflicted heavier losses on the British fleet and its officers -- at the least Lion could've been destroyed, for instance, and that would have almost surely killed Admiral Beatty -- but as for the absolute obliteration of the Grand Fleet at Jutland ... it is very difficult to construct a remotely reasonable chain of events that lead to that.

IF it had happened, however, to get back to the OP, Churchill may well have been right that Jellicoe was the only man who could have lost the war in an afternoon. The blow to morale would have been horrific, and would have led to the Asquith government falling some months earlier than it did. One could argue that, stunned by the loss of the bulk of the Royal Navy that had been deemed invulnerable for so long, that when Wilson offered to mediate at the end of 1916, the British may have been more willing to consider a negotiated end to the war.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Perhaps "Invincible" is a better term - not killable.
It's certainly true that Warspite took one heck of a beating from the entire HSF and yet toddled home quite happily.
 
Ah, what the hell, someone has to take this seriously just for the sake of argument...

and there are certainly British Miserabilists out there (Andrew Gordon, Corelli Barnett, etc) who believe the Grand Fleet could have screwed up that badly. Imagine Charles Beresford recalled from retirement to command, for instance. (Including, arguably, Jellicoe- he was consistently generous in his estimate of enemy capabilities, and pessimistic of his own.)


With the battle line of the Grand Fleet broken, the High Seas Fleet can do all those things that the Grand Fleet was stopping it from doing; chiefly, lift the British blockade, impose one of their own that would cut off British imports and make it impossible to prosecute the war.

Peace treaty at torpedo- point, BEF is withdrawn from France, German army swings through force vacuum, Kaiser holds victory parade down the Champs Elysee, vivat germania in omnes et perpetuo.

When Churchill described Jellicoe as the only man on either side who could lose the war in an afternoon, he actually had a point.


How, on the other hand...it's beyond the ordinary chances of war. So many things would have to go so very right, so very consistently, as to defy probability.

One mischance is believable, several are probably the result of the real odds not being what you thought they were (gross underestimates of the actual volatility of British cordite leading to highly dangerous ammunition handling procedures for instance), but being consistently one standard deviation off normal...no.
 

cpip

Gone Fishin'
Perhaps "Invincible" is a better term - not killable.
It's certainly true that Warspite took one heck of a beating from the entire HSF and yet toddled home quite happily.

Agreed; and despite it all the German dreadnoughts and even the battlecruisers who dared the "Death Ride" were back in service within months as well, so I feel my point that durability is a characteristic of any capital ship of the period stands.

I honestly don't think there's any way either side could actually annihilate each other's fleet in any reasonable battle with even remotely human operators; such a battle could well replace Pyrrhus in the lexicon of hollow victories.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Agreed; and despite it all the German dreadnoughts and even the battlecruisers who dared the "Death Ride" were back in service within months as well, so I feel my point that durability is a characteristic of any capital ship of the period stands.

I honestly don't think there's any way either side could actually annihilate each other's fleet in any reasonable battle with even remotely human operators; such a battle could well replace Pyrrhus in the lexicon of hollow victories.
I think if there'd been a second closer engagement after the first one then it could have been a bit more bloody - but yes.
The only way to get a wholesale wipe-out would be if (using the side with faster ships here) the Brits were losing ships from the pursuit to motive damage slower than the Germans were losing them to outright disablement. Basically you need to have a situation where the RN keeps pressing the engagement and the KM can't get away - and that's really dang hard since the KM can use their light forces to gain time!
 
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