WI: George VI/Queen Mother killed in air raid

[Welshroyalhistory]

no, they met in 1939 and she fell in love with him than and they wrote back and forth through the war, I don't know the Queen so I can't say if she's the type who wishes to be alone in times of pain or reaches out and pulls loved ones in, but I think this would make them closer not end their relationship, likely they'd be married ether when she turns 18 or the war ends, which ever comes first

That's one of those urban myths that have never actually been evidenced.

Princess Elizabeth was 13 when she met Prince Philip in 1939.

In a scenario where Elizabeth's father and mother have been murdered, things are going to be different. Elizabeth and Margaret are likely going to be raised by Queen Mary, probably even more conservatively and secluded than they actually were!

Mixing with the young Queen is going to be near impossible and those allowed near her will be vetted closely by Queen Mary.

Queen Mary loathed Lord Mounbatten and was responsible in 1952 for a serious conflict in the Queen and Prince Philip's marriage by insisting to Churchill that the royal house should remain Windsor and not be renamed Mountbatten, which Philip and his uncle expected. Queen Mary is likely to try and prevent any interaction between her grandaughter and the Mountbatten family i.e. in October 1946 Princess Elizabeth attended the wedding of Mountbatten's daughter Patricia where she was seen with Prince Philip. Its unlikely the young Queen Elizabeth II is going to be socialising as she was in fact able to do as Princess Elizabeth.

Philip's ancestry is going to be even MORE controversial in a situation where the young Queen's mother and father were assassinated by Nazis.

Remember in 1947 none of Philip's surviving sisters were invited to the wedding because they were German, two of his brothers-in-law had fought in the Nazi German army. That is why Philip had to distance himself from his German heritage and become Philip Mountbatten....imagine how much more controversial it would be if Elizabeth's parents had been murdered by the German airforce!

Queen Mary is key here! Remember she and her husband George V had deliberately rebranded the monarchy to emphasise its Britishness to protect the image of the monarchy. They had changed the family name to Windsor and even broke centuries of German royal tradition by allowing their children to marry into the British aristocracy rather than marrying minor German princelings.

Is she going to favour her grandaughter making such a match?

 

[fscott]

The abiding British reason to fight the war becomes revenge, harsh and swift. Such an event IMO would seriously backfire on the Germans-British spies would be in Germany in force and any remaining reserve when it comes to targetting leaders goes out the window. Hitler, Himmler, Goering-all are in serious danger.

Direct military impact? Probably not much, but covert operations go through the roof

I know that I am viewing this in hindsight but we shot down Yamamoto why didn't we target other leaders?

 

[Welshroyalhistory]

I know that I am viewing this in hindsight but we shot down Yamamoto why didn't we target other leaders?

I seem to recall reading somewhere that they didn't want to turn Hitler into a martyr and preferred for him deposed either by losing in the war or at the hand of his own people.

 

[black angel]

That's one of those urban myths that have never actually been evidenced.

Princess Elizabeth was 13 when she met Prince Philip in 1939.

an "urban myth" published in a number of books, and I know she was 13. also Prince Philip was a Navy Vet, so I don't think his "Germanness" would be an issue, nothing like putting your life on the line to prove a point

 

[Grimm Reaper]

fscott, because Yamamoto was a military leader of proven ability and the US was likely to be better off without him around.


Mountbatten was determined to see his nephew marry Princess Elizabeth OTL and would be more eager in this TL.

 

[black angel]

Also I don't think Queen Mary was that close to the Girls, at least not to Princess Margaret, and as Regent the Prince Henry would likely be in charge of the Princesses' persons and welfare not the their Grandmother so her hate of Lord Mounbatten wouldn't matter any more than it did in OTL

 

[Welshroyalhistory]

an "urban myth" published in a number of books, and I know she was 13. also Prince Philip was a Navy Vet, so I don't think his "Germanness" would be an issue, nothing like putting your life on the line to prove a point

Since neither the Queen or Prince Philip have spoken about it publicly, they never do, it is indeed an urban myth concoted by various authors to try and explain the formation of the royal relationship.

Philip's "Germaness" or non Britishness is perhaps a better explanation was very much an issue in 1947. His sisters and no German relatives were not invited to his wedding, he had to take British nationality (unneseccarily), abandon his Greek title and rights to the Greek throne in order to appear British enough...now imagine what he would have to in a situation where less than a decade ago his parents-in-law had been assassinated by the Germany airforce.

 

[black angel]

Since neither the Queen or Prince Philip have spoken about it publicly, they never do, it is indeed an urban myth concoted by various authors to try and explain the formation of the royal relationship.

Philip's "Germaness" or non Britishness is perhaps a better explanation was very much an issue in 1947. His sisters and no German relatives were not invited to his wedding, he had to take British nationality (unneseccarily), abandon his Greek title and rights to the Greek throne in order to appear British enough...now imagine what he would have to in a situation where less than a decade ago his parents-in-law had been assassinated by the Germany airforce.

A) again he's a vet of the war B) I think not inviting the germans is a judgement of them and C) giving up your claims on other thrones is the norm of a consort and not a judgement on his "Britishness"

 

[Welshroyalhistory]

Also I don't think Queen Mary was that close to the Girls, at least not to Princess Margaret, and as Regent the Prince Henry would likely be in charge of the Princesses' persons and welfare not the their Grandmother so her hate of Lord Mounbatten wouldn't matter any more than it did in OTL

Queen Mary was heavily involved in the education of both the Queen and Princess Margaret, she was very concerned by the lack of emphasis George VI and Queen Elizabeth placed on a formal education for their daughters.

Queen Mary is often identified as being one of the main influences on Queen Elizabeth II and her influence on her grandaughter was considerable - case in point Queen Mary was the protagnist in the war of the naming of the royal house that enguled Elizabeth II within weeks of her succession - Elizabeth II took the side of her grandmother and mother (who dragged Churchill into it) over her husband and the royal house remained named Windsor.

I think you are confusing regent with guardian. While I agree Henry, Duke of Gloucester is a likely candidate to be regent, there is no reason to assume he would have day to day care of his murdered brother's daughters. George VI and Queen Elizabeth lived in London for most of the week and travelled down to Windsor at weekends where the princesses lived. I think after the murder of the King and Queen, the princesses would be sent even further from London...Badminton being the most likely option.

 

[Welshroyalhistory]

A) again he's a vet of the war B)

Why do you assume this?

Look at WW1 and the experience of Philip's cousin Prince Louis of Battenberg! Louis had been in the Royal Navy for 40 years and was married to a grandaughter of Queen Victoria and he was forced into retirement.

Anti German sentiment is going to be off the charts in 1940 after the murder of George VI and Queen Elizabeth.

 

[Welshroyalhistory]

You missed the underlying point, Philip's whole identity was scrapped, he needed to be wholly rebranded in order to be suitable to marry the future Queen.

This is in a scenario where he lived most of his life in the UK and served in her military and he still had to do this to be palatable, two and a half years after the war ended.

Now imagine how much harder it would be had the King and Queen been murdered by the German airforce a few years earlier.

 

[black angel]

Queen Mary is often identified as being one of the main influences on Queen Elizabeth II and her influence on her grandaughter was considerable - case in point Queen Mary was the protagnist in the war of the naming of the royal house that enguled Elizabeth II within weeks of her succession - Elizabeth II took the side of her grandmother and mother (who dragged Churchill into it) over her husband and the royal house remained named Windsor.

I think you are confusing regent with guardian. While I agree Henry, Duke of Gloucester is a likely candidate to be regent, there is no reason to assume he would have day to day care of his murdered brother's daughters. George VI and Queen Elizabeth lived in London for most of the week and travelled down to Windsor at weekends where the princesses lived. I think after the murder of the King and Queen, the princesses would be sent even further from London...Badminton being the most likely option.

those who have spoken on the Royal Family hold that the Queen is with out a doubt the head of the family, and in 1960 after the death of Queen Mary and Churchill's stepping down she stood by Windsor, and to date the only person that might take the name "Mountbatten-Windsor" doesn't (Lady Louise Windsor) so I think thats a statement more about the Queen's feelings on the matter than her Grandmother's, they agree, but I don't think if the Queen didn't share those feelings that it would have happened

it's silly to think that any royal would have day to day care of them, they're in the day to day care of staff and governesses, under their Parents, under a Regent under whoever, and I think that the Regent would be the formal guardian, in fact I believe that George VI put in his will that Henry would be both in case of his death before the girl's majority

 

[black angel]

You missed the underlying point, Philip's whole identity was scrapped, he needed to be wholly rebranded in order to be suitable to marry the future Queen.

not really Philip had long defined himself by his very British Uncle, Philip was always at heart a Mountbatten, he even refereed to it as "his name" when he bitched about not being allowed to give "his name" to his children, he didn't need to redefine himself much at all merely cleaning up around the edges

 

[Welshroyalhistory]

not really Philip had long defined himself by his very British Uncle, Philip was always at heart a Mountbatten, he even refereed to it as "his name" when he bitched about not being allowed to give "his name" to his children, he didn't need to redefine himself much at all merely cleaning up around the edges

Lol, I am sure Louis Battenberg said the same thing in 1914.

 

[Welshroyalhistory]

those who have spoken on the Royal Family hold that the Queen is with out a doubt the head of the family, and in 1960 after the death of Queen Mary and Churchill's stepping down she stood by Windsor, and to date the only person that might take the name "Mountbatten-Windsor" doesn't (Lady Louise Windsor) so I think thats a statement more about the Queen's feelings on the matter than her Grandmother's, they agree, but I don't think if the Queen didn't share those feelings that it would have happened

it's silly to think that any royal would have day to day care of them, they're in the day to day care of staff and governesses, under their Parents, under a Regent under whoever, and I think that the Regent would be the formal guardian, in fact I believe that George VI put in his will that Henry would be both in case of his death before the girl's majority

I'd be intrigued to know your sources for this.

It is convienient that the Queen changed the name to reflect her husband AFTER Queen Mary's death and Churchill's retirement.

You are not correct about Lady Louise Windsor.

Most royal marriage certificates are not released publicly (the Cambridge one hasnt been) but HRH the Princess Royal was described as Mountbatten Windsor on her marriage certificate in 1973.

 

[black angel]

I'd be intrigued to know your sources for this.

It is convienient that the Queen changed the name to reflect her husband AFTER Queen Mary's death and Churchill's retirement.

You are not correct about Lady Louise Windsor.

Most royal marriage certificates are not released publicly (the Cambridge one hasnt been) but HRH the Princess Royal was described as Mountbatten Windsor on her marriage certificate in 1973.

she changed it only in a Minor way, royals are still members of the House of Windsor, those who have last names have the surname Mountbatten-Windsor, Royals don't have surnames, as for Lady Louise Windsor, yes her formal name is Louise Alice Elizabeth Mary Mountbatten-Windsor, she however is addressed and spoken of as "Lady Louise Windsor" not Lady Louise Mountbatten or even Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor

 

[simonbp]

The progress of the war was dictated by the growth of Britain’s industrial capacity and, more importantly, that of the United States; it could not be accelerated beyond what it already was.

Britain's could not be accelerated more, but the US could. Dead King George would make the propaganda effort in the US much easier, and potentially lead to more and sooner Lend-Lease.

 

[Cook]

I know that I am viewing this in hindsight but we shot down Yamamoto why didn't we target other leaders?

Lack of Oportunity. When the opportunity did arise, as in the case of Reinhard Heydrich, it was taken despite the fact that the consequences were expected to be harsh.

 

[brick24alpha]

Elizabeth is now Queen, a Regent is appointed until she becomes of age and the British are now really pissed.

make that Royally pissed

 

[modelcitizen]

The abiding British reason to fight the war becomes revenge, harsh and swift. Such an event IMO would seriously backfire on the Germans-British spies would be in Germany in force and any remaining reserve when it comes to targetting leaders goes out the window. Hitler, Himmler, Goering-all are in serious danger.

Direct military impact? Probably not much, but covert operations go through the roof

Dresden-style firestorms might become a bit more regular.