WI: George Lucas Makes Sequels to Star Wars Instead of Prequels in the 1990's?

This implies that Lucas has to care about the books when writing the new movies when he doesn't at all; his films were rated as being higher than any book as canon in the old system, so if he wants to ignore all of that, he can.:D

I only mention that because what he can do after the fact that might make sense plot wise? The good thing about the Prequels is that you never had any recent material before the movies as a whole, you did have stuff that took place in the past a 1000 or more years ago. That gave the prequels room to breathe without the possibility of pissing people off.

With the alt sequels ok ignore the E.U but what can you get for a plot to be decent, given Lucas could have taken some parts from the E.U to work with. Imperial remnants,Thrawn maybe a decently done revival of the emperor, or parts of that story with imperial pretenders.

Still why do people assume that these sequels are going to turn out exactly like the prequels? Since we are not going to see a young Anakin I don't it's gonna have that kid friendly appeal that the prequels had started out with.
 
I only mention that because what he can do after the fact that might make sense plot wise? The good thing about the Prequels is that you never had any recent material before the movies as a whole, you did have stuff that took place in the past a 1000 or more years ago. That gave the prequels room to breathe without the possibility of pissing people off.

With the alt sequels ok ignore the E.U but what can you get for a plot to be decent, given Lucas could have taken some parts from the E.U to work with. Imperial remnants,Thrawn maybe a decently done revival of the emperor, or parts of that story with imperial pretenders.

Still why do people assume that these sequels are going to turn out exactly like the prequels? Since we are not going to see a young Anakin I don't it's gonna have that kid friendly appeal that the prequels had started out with.
You really don't know how George thought about the movies do you? By RotJ, he was visualizing the business element more than he was concerned about making a good story. He was beginning to focus on getting the merchandise to sell, and was orienting towards selling it to children. This is not an unreasonable idea; if you get them while they're young, they'll buy for life. It's why he made a cartoon rabbit that steps in the poopie after all; he was designed to be a mascot for that sort of thing.

The movies from the beginning were designed for families, and George would definitely try to make it kid friendly. He was the guy that preferred the happy endings for his Star Wars films, and he's going to want to maximize his market as well. Hitting children builds a larger long term fanbase and builds more recognition rather than appealing to the finicky fans who read the books and who are inclined to not like it regardless if it was based on Thrawn, since it wouldn't meet expectation. He only goes dark if he thinks that he can get a bigger pull for doing that, and he'd more likely want to factor in business first.

However, you are right in that he'd probably rip from the books to form a loose idea on what the events in the film will be, likely taking the idea of imperial remnants or something along those lines trying to overthrow the weak New Republic. George takes as he pleases after all.
 
The movies from the beginning were designed for families, and George would definitely try to make it kid friendly. He was the guy that preferred the happy endings for his Star Wars films, and he's going to want to maximize his market as well.

When I mean kid friendly, compare and contrast Episode 1's atmosphere and character wise from the other 6. One of main characters is a kid who manages to do some pretty cool stuff such as competing and wining in a race and even blowing up an important space ship after a series of adventures. There's also the fact that it doesn't seem as dark save for the appearance of the Trade Federation in force and Darth Maul. Hell there's also an overt comic relief, whose bumbling manages to save the day. All things considered it's a rather light movie on it's own, even with some death.

In contrast Episode 2 opens up with the discussion of assassination and attempted assassination of someone, with the assassin getting betrayed and killed for failure. You also see someone's mother die with said character going on a rampage killing everyone involved women and children included, and you even see someone have their father killed in front of their eyes. Three has a space battle, but you see the main character take the questionable action of killing a literally unarmed man, and start to see more of his fall. Not to mention actually seeing that fall and the depths that person sinks afterwards with all of the nasty consequences.

That's why I'm saying it's not going to necessarily be as kid friendly as the prequels had started out. Which is I don't get the whole, oh there's gonna be something like Jar Jar who only worked as he did in the first movie because it was so light.
 
When I mean kid friendly, compare and contrast Episode 1's atmosphere and character wise from the other 6. One of main characters is a kid who manages to do some pretty cool stuff such as competing and wining in a race and even blowing up an important space ship after a series of adventures. There's also the fact that it doesn't seem as dark save for the appearance of the Trade Federation in force and Darth Maul. Hell there's also an overt comic relief, whose bumbling manages to save the day. All things considered it's a rather light movie on it's own, even with some death.

In contrast Episode 2 opens up with the discussion of assassination and attempted assassination of someone, with the assassin getting betrayed and killed for failure. You also see someone's mother die with said character going on a rampage killing everyone involved women and children included, and you even see someone have their father killed in front of their eyes. Three has a space battle, but you see the main character take the questionable action of killing a literally unarmed man, and start to see more of his fall. Not to mention actually seeing that fall and the depths that person sinks afterwards with all of the nasty consequences.

That's why I'm saying it's not going to necessarily be as kid friendly as the prequels had started out. Which is I don't get the whole, oh there's gonna be something like Jar Jar who only worked as he did in the first movie because it was so light.

In this respect, I agree again. George may not necessarily need to go through such a cartoony initial idea, the supposition that a child friendly movie that kids will watch needs a kid character and cartoon bunny man with a bad Jamaican accent. He will want the film to be as blatantly marketable as possible and his ideas for that would differ due to the nature of the project. I would not be shocked though if he tries to shoehorn in as much as he can along with his new ideas. Up to and including a Darth Vader fanboy worshipper, since his handling of Anakin in OTL really implies that he lets culture dictate his character.

I still uphold that the writing and direction would almost certainly be shit though, no matter the base idea. Mainly because unless you can get George to give up total control he will not bow down to changes at this point due to a mixture of hubris and assumed success due to founding such a franchise and being so successful. This means that his bad ideas don't get filtered out. And if he decides to direct for it, he will likely not really "direct"; he never had an affinity for it and sucked at working with the actors.
 
But for the rest. He got much more credit than he deserved. Episode VI showed he did not know how to finish his movie, with the return of the death star.

That's not correct. When Lucas conceived of Star Wars as a concept, he envisioned a single film, but in the process of writing the script, the story got away from him and the script that he wrote would have been a three to four hour film if had tried to fit everything into a single film, so he took the first third, built a movie around that, which revolved around Luke encountering Ben/Han/Chewie and the Death Star rescue.When it quickly became clear that Star Wars was a run away hit, Fox came to him asking for more and Lucas already had enough material for at least two sequels and enough story notes and ideas for more several more films on top of that. Lucas recycled the Death Star as a plot device for Ep. VI because he had always intended for Star Wars to end with the Rebels attacking the Death Star.
 
A possible POD for good sequels, or even Prequels is that maybe Irwin Kerchner or Lawrence Kasaden accepts his offer to work with him. IIRC he actually offered the guy who made American Graffiti the chance to direct TPM with him. Some of his original ideas was that he planned to do just one Prequel, then give it to someone else.
 
IIRC he actually offered the guy who made American Graffiti the chance to direct TPM with him.

George Lucas directed American Graffiti. Did you mean that he offered the producer of AG, which was Francis Ford Coppola, the opportunity to direct Ep. I? If so, that would have been an interesting choice. I wonder what an FFC sci-fi movie would be like.
 
That's not correct. When Lucas conceived of Star Wars as a concept, he envisioned a single film, but in the process of writing the script, the story got away from him and the script that he wrote would have been a three to four hour film if had tried to fit everything into a single film, so he took the first third, built a movie around that, which revolved around Luke encountering Ben/Han/Chewie and the Death Star rescue.When it quickly became clear that Star Wars was a run away hit, Fox came to him asking for more and Lucas already had enough material for at least two sequels and enough story notes and ideas for more several more films on top of that. Lucas recycled the Death Star as a plot device for Ep. VI because he had always intended for Star Wars to end with the Rebels attacking the Death Star.

According to the "Secret History of Star Wars" by Kaminski, Lucas had some material that made it to ANH and ESB. By ROTJ, however, he had to think up a storyline from scratch and he did it by collaborating with Lawrence Kasdan and the director of ROTJ, Richard Marquand.

In the rough draft of ROTJ, there was no Death Star. There was the home planet of the Empire, Had Abbadon, that the Rebel space fleet was to attack and capture, precipitating the fall of the Empire. Endor, where the Ewoks live, orbitted this planet and was to be used as the Rebel staging ground in preparation of the upcoming attack. However, similar to the final draft of ROTJ, the Emperor knew of the plot and was waiting for them...

The book doesn't explain why the threesome then decided to drop the Had Abbadon angle in favour of the second Death Star. I wish they had kept the original draft. Attacking the Death Star is a retread of ANH.




CORRECTION: There was a Death Star in the original rough draft (up to two Death Stars). It was under construction on Had Abbadon. However, the main Rebel attack was to be made on Had Abbadon. My mistake.
 
Last edited:
It probably wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility that Star Wars ends up in a Star Trek like state, instead of sequels being made, a reboot happens, not necessarily of the original trilogy, perhaps even just ignoring any subsequent works...
 
at a literary festival, they had a free screenwriting class. You could write a one or two-page dialogue scene, and they had actors and actresses who would act out the scene. It was a really pretty good opportunity. And I was one of only about a half dozen people who took advantage of it.

Before the writing exercise, the woman leading it wrote on the board "give yourself the permission to be stupid." That is, take some damn chances and try some things which might work out and might not.

George should have tried some of the experimental films he talked about. I hope he still does. :)
 
There's no might about it. By the 1990s Harrison Ford was a full blown A-list movie star, thanks in large part to Star Wars and Indy. If he wanted script re-writes he would probably get them.

1990s Ford might not want to reprise Han Solo.

The man was riding the high tide of success and unlike Indy, he's reported to dislike Han.

It might not be until the second or even third movie in the trilogy when he calls Lucas and says, "hey, I have not received good scripts in a few years and have reconsidered", at which point George might well go "sorry bud, you got your chance".

Bear in mind that George kicked Leonardo di Caprio out of starring in Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith, at a time when the success of Titanic and The Man in the Iron Mask was still fresh.
 
Careful what you wish for?

Lucas recycled the Death Star as a plot device for Ep. VI because he had always intended for Star Wars to end with the Rebels attacking the Death Star.

Either way: I really never minded the Death Star being rebuild again. Actually liked it. A flawed weapon system getting an overhaul and fielded again. German tanks could not live up to the T-34 in Russia? Fair enough, but that did NOT result in Germany then fielding "War Walkers" or "Tunnel Tanks" next year in WWII. Just better tanks, toothing problems removed, uparmored, upgunned etc..

And as a plot device the Death Stars also worked very differently. In Episode IV it was "The Threat". Whereas in Episode VI it was "The Bait". So I really do not understand the criticism on that particular point.

What I dislike a lot more is when something is changed just for the sake of having something 'new'. Like for instance the "Buzz Droid Rocket" from Episode III. That was embarassing gimicky and silly and for me a prime example of trying to be 'novel at all cost'. I am really glad Episode IV did not throw something like the "Death Cube" or "Death Pyramid" or "D&D D20 of Death" at me.
 
It would be as bad, if not worse than the Prequels.

It took decades for most people to realize it, but Lucas has always been a hack.

American Graffiti is a pretty bland bit of Boomer nostalgia. I've seen it three times and I still couldn't tell you the name of a single character.

Star Wars would have been an utter disaster had people not reigned him in the entire time, or forcefully rewritten the scripts or ignored his dialogue. In terms of direction, Star Wars was basically a Kurosawa movie with a bunch of scenes ripped off from British war movies or pulp serials.

Lucas without limits or oversight gives you crap like Howard the Duck, or Stange Magic, or the Prequels. A bunch of Lucas-helped Sequels would be awful.

The best thing to come from Disney buying Lucasfilm was it got Star Wars out of his grubby hands.
 
I feel like Lucas can be thanked for the original creative spark behind Star Wars, but the credit should stop there. When he had absolute control over the films and the power to dictate anything he could imagine into CGI, he showed he had no idea what he was doing and didn't understand his own franchise. Without having to share power over the project with people who knew what they were doing, the films were terrible.
 
It would be as bad, if not worse than the Prequels.

It took decades for most people to realize it, but Lucas has always been a hack.

The guy who created Darth Vader, Darth Maul, Han Solo, Indiana Jones, lightsabers, Jedi, C3PO, R2D2 ... is a hack? He created two beloved franchises that stood the test of time. Respected directors like Steven Spielberg and Francis Ford Coppola speak highly of him.

Lucas without limits or oversight gives you crap like Howard the Duck, or Stange Magic, or the Prequels. A bunch of Lucas-helped Sequels would be awful.

The problem with Howard the Duck was that it was live-action instead of animated as originally intended. The live-action duck looked ridiculous and hurt the movie. Despite this, fans of the Duck praised the movie.

The best thing to come from Disney buying Lucasfilm was it got Star Wars out of his grubby hands.

Lucas CREATED Star Wars. Why couldn't Disney simply think up its own space adventure instead of buying one from a "hack"?
 
I feel like Lucas can be thanked for the original creative spark behind Star Wars, but the credit should stop there. When he had absolute control over the films and the power to dictate anything he could imagine into CGI, he showed he had no idea what he was doing and didn't understand his own franchise. Without having to share power over the project with people who knew what they were doing, the films were terrible.

The first two prequels were terrible but Revenge of the Sith was not terrible.
 
The guy who created Darth Vader, Darth Maul, Han Solo, Indiana Jones, lightsabers, Jedi, C3PO, R2D2 ... is a hack? He created two beloved franchises that stood the test of time. Respected directors like Steven Spielberg and Francis Ford Coppola speak highly of him.

Here's the thing: Lucas created next to none of them. They were either loosly inspired by/liberally ripped off of some older work (see Flash Gordon, Buck Rogers, the countless Kurosawa films and war movies he ripped off) or changed radically by the multiple edits made along the way that as much credit is owed to Spielburg, Kasden or Marsha Lucas as there is for George.

You want to know what we'd have gotten if people hadn't shot down Lucas every step of the way on the road to Star Wars?

The plot would have been a much more liberal rip off of Hidden Fortress. The Jedi Bendu would battle the Sith over control of the Bogan Force. Han Solo was a reptilian pirate who hunted wookies. C3PO talked like a used car salesman. Vader was almost entirely off screen, with a charachter named Valorum taking his place as the lead villain. Luke Skywalker would have been an old man, while his padawan Annakin Starkiller would have been the protaganist. The dialogue is largely clunky, wooden exposition. Look over the scripts, than thank whatever deity you choose that Lucas didn't get his way.

The problem with Howard the Duck was that it was live-action instead of animated as originally intended. The live-action duck looked ridiculous and hurt the movie. Despite this, fans of the Duck praised the movie.

The problem is he made a Howard the Duck movie PERIOD.

Lucas CREATED Star Wars. Why couldn't Disney simply think up its own space adventure instead of buying one from a "hack"?

Same reason why we don't have a successful franchise based on Flash Gordon or John Carter - Star Wars beat them to the punch. Disney only cared about the brand name.
 
Here's the thing: Lucas created next to none of them. They were either loosly inspired by/liberally ripped off of some older work (see Flash Gordon, Buck Rogers, the countless Kurosawa films and war movies he ripped off) or changed radically by the multiple edits made along the way that as much credit is owed to Spielburg, Kasden or Marsha Lucas as there is for George.

Lucas created them. All work today is derivative of previous work. It's called inspiration. Flash Gordon is a ripoff/inspired by Buck Rodgers which itself is based on swashbuckling and space fantasy novels from the 19th century like Jules Verne, H.G. Wells and Edgar Rice Burroughs. Batman is a ripoff/inspiration of the Shadow; Superman is a ripoff/inspiration of Hercules. I haven't seen Kuwosawa films yet, but I'm pretty sure they were also inspired by previous archetypes.

You want to know what we'd have gotten if people hadn't shot down Lucas every step of the way on the road to Star Wars?

Nobody shot down Lucas. People who have been interviewed, such as Anthony Daniels who played C3P0, have said that Lucas was hardheaded to work for and that he was determined to do things his way. Lucas was willing to solicit and ask for others' opinions (like many other writers and scenarists do) but whether Lucas was to incorporate them or not was entirely his call. The only person that was willing to stand up to Lucas and have his/her way was his wife, Marcia, and she was only partially successful. For example, it was her idea, against Lucas's will, to have Leia kiss Luke and wish him luck before they were forced to a perilous swing across a chasm in ANH. But that's it. Even she constantly found it draining to have her way. The rest of the movie was all-Lucas.

The plot would have been a much more liberal rip off of Hidden Fortress. The Jedi Bendu would battle the Sith over control of the Bogan Force. Han Solo was a reptilian pirate who hunted wookies. C3PO talked like a used car salesman. Vader was almost entirely off screen, with a charachter named Valorum taking his place as the lead villain. Luke Skywalker would have been an old man, while his padawan Annakin Starkiller would have been the protaganist. The dialogue is largely clunky, wooden exposition. Look over the scripts, than thank whatever deity you choose that Lucas didn't get his way.

That was the first draft. Lucas was constantly changing plot points here and there thoughout the drafts, searching for better storylines. He was quoted as saying he had written 4 different Star Wars storylines before deciding on the one he liked the most. It was Lucas HIMSELF who eliminated the Valorum character, who only existed in the first 2 drafts, and it was Lucas HIMSELF who changed Han Solo into a human by the second draft, and it was Lucas HIMSELF who changed all other character points and plots you mentioned such that by the time of the revised fourth draft, it was the one we saw in theatres.

The problem is he made a Howard the Duck movie PERIOD.

Go on the website. Many people, including many Howard the Duck fans, claimed that it was an underrated film hampered by the fact that it was live-action. If it had been animated, like Lucas wanted but couldn't because of contract obligations, the film would have been better received instead of being laughed at because of how ridiculous Howard the Duck looked live-action.



Same reason why we don't have a successful franchise based on Flash Gordon or John Carter - Star Wars beat them to the punch. Disney only cared about the brand name.

Or maybe Star Wars is just better. Flash Gordon has existed for decades but never stood the test of time. Star Wars has.
 
I think Sequels would work better because it would allow to tell a simpler story.
I mean the main problem with prequels was, that we know it had to be the epic origin story of Darth Vader. And this epic part definitly failed at the moment as Jar Jar appeared and after we realized that Darth Vader was played by a cute kid. And now imaging this all without the need to tell Darth Vaders story, but just a simple open-ended good against evil story. I mean Jar Jar and the kid would be still horrible characters, but not on a rape-our-childhood-level.
 
Top