WI: Geoffrey II of Brittany survives Henry II and Richard I and Philip dies on Crusade?

[Brita]

What if Geoffrey had not died in 1186 and gained Anjou as he wanted to, and if Philip had not survived his bout of fever in 1191?

Here's a possible start:
1186 - Geoffrey allies with Philip against his father. Like the preceding ones, the rebellion isn’t a success and Philip is defeated; Geoffrey is forgiven and eventually gains Anjou, as he wanted.
1186/1189 - Geoffrey remains on good terms with his father.
1189 - Richard’s rebellion. Geoffrey carefully keeps away and John joins Richard as in OTL. Death of Henry II.
1190 - Richard and Philip go on Crusade.
1191 - Philip falls ill and dies.

Butterflies: French regency and John's reaction to Richard’s capture.

French regency. Logically, Adela of Champagne remains regent, but the Hainaut family is likely to start meddling and Henry II of Champagne might come back to help his aunt, so who would marry Isabelle of Jerusalem?
And John could have his marriage to Isabella of Gloucester annulled and marry Alys of France to claim the regency (and strengthen his position compared to Richard and Geoffrey)

After Richard’s capture. Would John still try to seize the throne given that Geoffrey isn’t dead? He could take a leaf from Henry I’s book, hurrying to seize the royal treasury despite his elder brother being alive.

 

[VVD0D95]

Is Geoffrey remaining in Brittany or Anjou when Richard goes on crusade? If so I think John rushes to take the throne

 

[Brita]

Yes I imagine Geoffrey keeping rather quiet after being granted Anjou, his relationships with Richard being strained enough like that!
He stays in Brittany and takes advantage of Richard's absence to strengthen the duchy's autonmy (like Constance OTL) but doesn't try to threaten Richard's lands.

 

[VVD0D95]

Yes I imagine Geoffrey keeping rather quiet after being granted Anjou, his relationships with Richard being strained enough like that!
He stays in Brittany and takes advantage of Richard's absence to strengthen the duchy's autonmy (like Constance OTL) but doesn't try to threaten Richard's lands.

Though he had the superior claim to England and us an adult unlike his son

 

[Brita]

Yes I think Geoffrey would react to John's attempt by joining their mother Eleanor and helping her raise Richard's ransom, in order to thwart John's plan and assure Richard of his loyalty.


Development to my proposed TL:

1191: following Philip's death, John repudiates Isabella of Gloucester and marries Alys of France, hoping to seize the French regency and increase his power compared to Richard and Geoffrey. He is however countered by Adela of Champagne, who forms an alliance with Baldwin V of Hainaut and his wife Margaret I of Flanders.
28 April 1192: assassination of Conrad of Montferrat. Isabella marries Henry II of Champagne.
Late 1192: Richard is captured by Leopold V of Austria and sent to the HRE Henry VI.
1193: John tries to take the throne, whereas Eleanor and Geoffrey work to raise the ransom. Geoffrey's daughter Eleanor is betrothed to Frederick of Austria John and Adela of Champagne try to convince Henry VI to keep Richard imprisoned.
Early 1194: Richard is released. John is exiled and settles on his wife's lands, the counties of Aumale and Eu.
December 1194: death of Leopold V of Austria. Eleanor is sent back to Brittany.
1194-1199: Richard has to fight John and Adela, with help from his mother and brother.
March 1199: Aimar V of Limoges rebels. Richard besieges Châlus-Chabrol and is struck by a crossbow shot.
6 April 1199: Richard dies. Geoffrey succeeds him.

 

[Brita]

Kings of England's family tree:

Geoffrey I of England (1158 - 1215) m. (1181) Constance of Brittany (1161 - 1213)

1. Eleanor of England (1182/84 - 1241) m. (1200) Peter II of Aragon (1178 - 1213)
   
2. Matilda of England (1185 - 1238) betrothed (1199) to Louis VIII of France, m. (1202) Llywlyn of Gwynedd (1173 - 1240)
   
3. Arthur I of England (1187 - 1274) m. (1202) Isabella of Angoulême (1186/88 - 1246)
4. William XI, Duke of Aquitaine (1189 - 1215) m. (1210) Garsenda of Sabran, widow of Alfonso II of Provence (1180 - 1242)
5. Margaret of England (1192 - 1230) m. (1205) Geoffrey I of Rohan (1190 - 1221)
6. Henry of England (1192)
   
7. Richard I, Duke of Brittany (1194 - 1220) m. Theodora Branaina, daughter of Theodoros Branas and Agnes of France (1193 - 1218)
8. Conan, Lord of Ireland (1197 - 1230)
9. Bertha of England (1199 - 1203)
   
10. Joan of England (1201 - 1269) m. (1227) Hugh IV of Burgundy (1213 - 1272)

 

[Brita]

Counts of Vexin, Aumale, Eu and Vexin, House of Plantagenet:

John of England (1166 - 1216) m. (1191) Alys of France (1160 - 1213)

1. Henry I of Vexin (1193 - 1252) m. Alix, Countess of Eu (d. 1246) [1]
   1. Henry II the Blind of Vexin (1215 - 1260) [2]
      
   2. John II of Vexin (1218 - 1281) m. a) Joan of Dampierre (1225 - 1245), b) Mary of Dampierre (1230 - 1260) [3]
      
      1. a) Alys of Vexin (1245 - 1307)
      2. b) John of Vexin (1248)
      3. b) A stillborn son (1251)
         
      4. b) A stillborn son (1252)
   3. Alys of Vexin (1220 - 1291), a nun
2. Eleanor of Vexin (1196 - 1198)
3. John of Vexin (1198)
   
4. Richard of Vexin (1200 - 1274), Archbishop of Tours (1256-1274)
   
5. Joan of Vexin (1203 - 1234) m. (1227) Henry II of Avaugour (1205 - 1231) [3]
   1. Alan of Avaugour (1229 - 1264)
      
   2. Henry of Avaugour (1231 - 1271)
      
   3. Joan of Avaugour (1231 - 1234)

[1] The counties of Eu and Aumâle Having been granted to Alys of France upon her marriage to John, Alix of Eu was later married to Henry to avoid troubles with the family.
[2] Henry II was blinded in "a curious accident" while hunting with King Louis VIII in 1238. Rumours spread that it was an attempted murder ordered by Louis, who feared his cousin wanted to depose him.
[3] Mary of Dampierre was a nun. When her sister Jeanne died, John of Vexin abducted her and married her. Her protestations and the death of their three children urged the Archbishop of Tours to declare the marriage null and Mary went back to her convent.
[4] Henry II of Avaugour pretended to the Breton succession, claiming his rights were superior to Constance's children as he was descended from Duke Geoffrey I in male line, whereas Arthur I was descended from Geoffrey I "thrice in foul female line". He rebelled against Arthur and was killed by Richard Marshal. His wife was sent into a convent and his children kept in custody in England.

 

[Marc]

The major difficulty about supposing's based on Geoffrey is how little we know of his character and/or talents.
What we do know is that apparently he was the least favored of the sons by his formidable parents. Yes, he could simply have been a blind spot for them - the overlooked child - or he could have lacked something that would have made him be appealing, if only in a dynastic sense.
Forgotten men sometimes deserve to be so.

 

[Brita]

The major difficulty about supposing's based on Geoffrey is how little we know of his character and/or talents.
What we do know is that apparently he was the least favored of the sons by his formidable parents. Yes, he could simply have been a blind spot for them - the overlooked child - or he could have lacked something that would have made him be appealing, if only in a dynastic sense.
Forgotten men sometimes deserve to be so.

I remember reading that Geoffrey was probably overlooked (and sometimes unfairly criticised) by medieval chroniclers because he'd never been crowned, contrary to his three brothers, whereas his friends, like Bertran de Born, hailed him as a good man and an excellent poet and jouster.
Personally, I can't help thinking that if John had died before their father too, he would probably have been forgotten as well, especially as he was "lackland".

 

[Brita]

Kings of France:
Louis VII (1120 - 1180) m. a) Eleanor of Aquitaine, b) Constance of Castile, c) Adela of Champagne

1. Marie of France (1145 - 1198) m. Henry I of Champagne
   1. Henry II of Champagne (1166–1197)
   2. Scholastique of Champagne (1172–1219)
   3. Marie of Champagne (1174–1204)
   4. Theobald III of Champagne (1179–1201)
2. Alix of France (1151 - 1197) m. Theobald V of Blois
   1. Theobald of Blois (1168 - after 1182)
   2. Margaret of Blois (1170 - 1230)
   3. Louis I of Blois (1171 - 1205)
   4. Henry of Blois (1175 - after 1182)
   5. Isabella of Blois (1180 – 1248)
   6. Philip of Blois (1184 - 1202)
   7. Alix of Blois (1185 - 1201), abbess of Fontevrault
3. Margaret of France (1158 - 1197) m. a) Henry of England, b) Béla III of Hungary
   1. William of England (1177)
4. Alys of France (1160 - 1213) m. John of England
   1. see post above
5. Philip II of France (1165 - 1191) m. Isabella of Hainaut
   1. Louis VIII of France (1187 - 1235) m. a) Blanche of Castile (1188 - 1226), b) Sophie of Denmark (1217 - 1247)
   2. Stillborn twins (1190)
6. Agnes (Anna) of France (1171 - 1220) m. a) Alexios IV Komnenos, b) Andronicos Komnenos, c) Theodoros I Branas
   1. c) Theodora Branaina (1193 - 1218) m. Richard I, Duke of Brittany (1194 - 1220)
      
   2. c) Manuel II Branas (1196 - 1264) m. Eleanor of Castile (1200 - 1248)
      
   3. c) Anna Branaina (1200 - 1205)

 

[Brita]

In 1202, King Geoffrey took part to the Fourth Crusade.
During the 1204 Siege of Constantinpole, Theodoros Branas, lover of the former Empress Anna, born Agnes of France, joined Geoffrey the Franks and was eventually acknowledged Byzantine Emperor. A treaty was signed between Geoffrey and Theodoros and two marriages arranged between the two families: Geoffrey's son Richard I of Brittany married Theodoros' daughter Theodora, and Theodoros' son Manuel married Geoffrey's niece Eleanor of Castile.

 

[Brita]

Margaret of Scotland (1144/45 - 1201) m. a) Conan IV of Brittany (1140 - 1171), b) Humphrey III de Bohun (bef. 1144 - 1181)

1. a) Constance of Brittany (1161 - 1213) m. Geoffrey I of England (1158 - 1215)
   1. see post above
2. a) Alan of Brittany (1163 - 1165) [1]
3. a) stillborn son (1164)
4. a) William of Brittany (1166 - 1230), Archbishop of Dol (1199 - 1230) [2]
   1. Alan Brito (1205 - 1274), illegitimate
5. a) Margaret of Brittany (1168 - 1191) m. Pedro Manrique de Lara [3]
   
6. b) Henry de Bohun (1176 - 1220) m. Maud de Mandeville
   1. Humphrey IV de Bohun
   2. Maud de Bohun
   3. Ralph de Bohun
7. b) Matilda de Bohun (1178 - 1225) m . Guy of Thouars (1160 - 1213)
   1. Agnes of Thouars (1200 - 1236)
   2. Aimée of Thouars (1201 - 1250)
   3. Geoffrey of Thouars (1205 - 1242)

[1] Alan and the stillborn names are my inventions but based on real children born from Margaret and Conan who died young.
[2] Geoffrey having succeeded Richard, Pope Innocent III decided that Dol would remain an Archbishopric and Constance's brother William succeeded Jean V de La Mouche.
[3] There are several theories about Pedro Manrique's second wife. I chose this one ITTL.