WI: Genoese "Stato da Mar"?

The Venetians had their overseas territories, the Stato da Mar, which stretched from Istria and Dalmatia to Crete and Negroponte. Though they would lose their Aegean possessions to the Ottomans, they managed to hold on to their Adriatic colonies until the Republic's fall under Napoleon. The Genoese had their own overseas possessions (Corsica, north Sardinia, Corfu, Chios, Cyprus, Caffa, and other small Black Sea ports) but rarely do I see timelines where they gain and hold territories for extended periods of time. What if they had their own "Stato da Mar" that they held onto for centuries? This would probably include Corsica and Sardinia, and the Aegean/Black Sea colonies during its early years. Other areas of expansion might be Elba, the Balearics, and Sicily once Venice/the Ottomans boot them from the Eastern Mediterranean, establishing their hold in the west.
 
The Venetians had their overseas territories, the Stato da Mar, which stretched from Istria and Dalmatia to Crete and Negroponte. Though they would lose their Aegean possessions to the Ottomans, they managed to hold on to their Adriatic colonies until the Republic's fall under Napoleon. The Genoese had their own overseas possessions (Corsica, north Sardinia, Corfu, Chios, Cyprus, Caffa, and other small Black Sea ports) but rarely do I see timelines where they gain and hold territories for extended periods of time. What if they had their own "Stato da Mar" that they held onto for centuries? This would probably include Corsica and Sardinia, and the Aegean/Black Sea colonies during its early years. Other areas of expansion might be Elba, the Balearics, and Sicily once Venice/the Ottomans boot them from the Eastern Mediterranean, establishing their hold in the west.

You're going to have to keep the banking class out of bed with the Spainards... which is hard to do when they're tempting you with huge guranteed quanities of gold and silver as collateral. Half the islands you listed were possessions held by/in union with the Crown of Aragon. Perhaps you end up with an earlier and harder breakdown in relations between Venice and the Ottomans with the Genoese stoking the flames, slipping in to take the lagoon city's commerical ties with the Turks during the wars? If the Ottos still make their push towards the centeral Med., Genoa might pick up some of those islands as part of an alliance / payment for financing the Ottoman and their North African vassal's war effort in the region
 
I think you also need Genoa to be militarily stronger and more of Venice's equal to provide them with the means and motive to build an empire.
 
You’ll want an early PoD, when Genoa and Venice were nearly matched at sea. Have Genoa assume Mediterranean naval dominance somehow—maybe with an alliance with other maritime republics—and Genoa can potentially get control over Corsica, Sardinia, Cyprus, Malta, various Greek islands, and the Crimean colonies.
 
The Venetians had their overseas territories, the Stato da Mar, which stretched from Istria and Dalmatia to Crete and Negroponte. Though they would lose their Aegean possessions to the Ottomans, they managed to hold on to their Adriatic colonies until the Republic's fall under Napoleon. The Genoese had their own overseas possessions (Corsica, north Sardinia, Corfu, Chios, Cyprus, Caffa, and other small Black Sea ports) but rarely do I see timelines where they gain and hold territories for extended periods of time. What if they had their own "Stato da Mar" that they held onto for centuries? This would probably include Corsica and Sardinia, and the Aegean/Black Sea colonies during its early years. Other areas of expansion might be Elba, the Balearics, and Sicily once Venice/the Ottomans boot them from the Eastern Mediterranean, establishing their hold in the west.

Genoa had the added problems of the Catalan and French naval ambitions whereas no one except Genoa and the later Ottomans. It was the vacuum of power that allowed it more than their internal strength, which leads to the main problem. The Genoese oligarchy was composed of shipping magnates and feudal landholders with very different priorities that were often conflicting, you'd need a persistent campaign to subdue the rural land holders in Genoa. The government was setup in a manner that resembled a corporation among the leading 40 or so families where families paid voluntary taxes that gave them stakes in an easy way to bind them to the state while guaranteeing revenue, it does however mean that any set back would result in the ruin of the ruling coalition of families and internal political turmoil. Coups were a frequent problem given the hostile political climate and losing politically often also means exile, execution, or confiscation of wealth; a moderate political system will help.
 
Genoa had the added problems of the Catalan and French naval ambitions whereas no one except Genoa and the later Ottomans. It was the vacuum of power that allowed it more than their internal strength, which leads to the main problem. The Genoese oligarchy was composed of shipping magnates and feudal landholders with very different priorities that were often conflicting, you'd need a persistent campaign to subdue the rural land holders in Genoa. The government was setup in a manner that resembled a corporation among the leading 40 or so families where families paid voluntary taxes that gave them stakes in an easy way to bind them to the state while guaranteeing revenue, it does however mean that any set back would result in the ruin of the ruling coalition of families and internal political turmoil. Coups were a frequent problem given the hostile political climate and losing politically often also means exile, execution, or confiscation of wealth; a moderate political system will help.

Well, in my Ottoman co-operation scenario its possible you'd see the feudal holdings in Genoa proper finding their wealth undermined as, similar to Venice IOTL , the state starts importing cheap Oriental grain to feed the metropolis. Granted, you'd still have to overcome the fact that in terms of geography Genoa dosen't have the same marketing oppriunities as Venice (Who benefits greatly from its relatively decent access to Southern/Central Germany trade links... at least as good as you can get from the Med.) for the shippers to really prosper... perhaps France never seriously pursues the development of a commercial center on its territory, instead defaulting to Genoa? Its not very likely, but perhaps possible.
 
Well, in my Ottoman co-operation scenario its possible you'd see the feudal holdings in Genoa proper finding their wealth undermined as, similar to Venice IOTL , the state starts importing cheap Oriental grain to feed the metropolis. Granted, you'd still have to overcome the fact that in terms of geography Genoa dosen't have the same marketing oppriunities as Venice (Who benefits greatly from its relatively decent access to Southern/Central Germany trade links... at least as good as you can get from the Med.) for the shippers to really prosper... perhaps France never seriously pursues the development of a commercial center on its territory, instead defaulting to Genoa? Its not very likely, but perhaps possible.

The Ottomans IOTL took Black Seas trade away from the Genoese and made it a monopoly, there was very little reason they would cooperate in the long run as IOTL showed they played the various Republics against each other for better terms. Their grain monopoly was more military than economic meant to produce grain for the army even when better cash crops were available, so yes it was cheap but there was no reason for the state not to maximize federal tariffs for the military by playing buyers off each other. The problem I see with you're scenario is that well, why won't the feudal lords do what most did at the time? Switch to orchards, mulberry, or some other crop with better yields, it was happening throughout the peninsula? Due to their history these feudal lords were somewhat econ savvy, the church was originally the largest and most ineffective land holder and land lease agreements stipulated that if the person who rented made improvements to the land (ie; a mill) then the original owner must pay the difference or sell the land to the rentee; in an era where land=prestige, the clergy was always broke and overspending, and this was one of the few ways to acquire land it naturally led a lot of feudal landholders to become money-wise and create the agricultural foundation of the Italian peninsula.

Not the best articulated paragraph I admit but its most of the substance out there.
 
The Ottomans IOTL took Black Seas trade away from the Genoese and made it a monopoly, there was very little reason they would cooperate in the long run as IOTL showed they played the various Republics against each other for better terms. Their grain monopoly was more military than economic meant to produce grain for the army even when better cash crops were available, so yes it was cheap but there was no reason for the state not to maximize federal tariffs for the military by playing buyers off each other. The problem I see with you're scenario is that well, why won't the feudal lords do what most did at the time? Switch to orchards, mulberry, or some other crop with better yields, it was happening throughout the peninsula? Due to their history these feudal lords were somewhat econ savvy, the church was originally the largest and most ineffective land holder and land lease agreements stipulated that if the person who rented made improvements to the land (ie; a mill) then the original owner must pay the difference or sell the land to the rentee; in an era where land=prestige, the clergy was always broke and overspending, and this was one of the few ways to acquire land it naturally led a lot of feudal landholders to become money-wise and create the agricultural foundation of the Italian peninsula.

Not the best articulated paragraph I admit but its most of the substance out there.

Good points on the Genoese domestic front. And while yes, that was the Ottoman policy IOTL, my point was that TTL would have a fundimentally different policy by the Ottomans towards Genoa, in which the understandings with and on-again-off-again relation they had with Venice is instead given to their western rival. Its certainly not the most likely policy shift in the world (Especially since Cafa is a pain in Turkey's side and the Black Sea possessions far more strategically important to the Porte, especially once they got involved in the politics of the Tartar steppes), but if the POD involved relations with Venice going sour enough early enough, and the Turks are still looking for a middleman to facilitate trade with the Italian-European markets, its a possability.

Though, now that i think about it, Riga might be a more prime candidate in that case.
 
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