WI: Galicia-Volhynia does not fall or decline? Leading to a surviving Kingdom of Ruthenia?

A couple hundred years under Germans (who speak a central European prestige language) Czechs (also west slavs) and Ruthenians who may just out reproduce them, this scenario is getting worse and worse for polish culture all the time.
But the parts of Poland under Bohemian rule would fare better since the czechs have a tendency to rebel and change religion, the polish don't, the protestant poles were very much nationalist compared to the soft catholic poles...
 
But the parts of Poland under Bohemian rule would fare better since the czechs have a tendency to rebel and change religion, the polish don't, the protestant poles were very much nationalist compared to the soft catholic poles...
Yes so Nationalistic that the Masurians became Prussian Nationalists
 
Yes so Nationalistic that the Masurians became Prussian Nationalists
the non nationalists protestant poles want germany - the silesians and other poles who protestant nationalists want a separate poland, the catholics were soft on this regard and want a compromise with the status quo..
 
the non nationalists protestant poles want germany - the silesians and other poles who protestant nationalists want a separate poland, the catholics were soft on this regard and want a compromise with the status quo..
I was under in impression that the Silesian were pro German, or did that develope later?
Also The Masurians thought of themselves as Prussians, they resisted Germanization but still had basically no interest in leaving the Kingdom of Prussia.
They were polish and protestant and Nationalist, the Nationalism was just prussian instead of Polish.
 
I was under in impression that the Silesian were pro German, or did that develope later?
Also The Masurians thought of themselves as Prussians, they resisted Germanization but still had basically no interest in leaving the Kingdom of Prussia.
They were polish and protestant and Nationalist, the Nationalism was just prussian instead of Polish.
The catholics tend to follow status quo that is why some of them are pro-german..
 
With a strong Galicia-Volhynia, the Lithuanians would have to expand north instead.

Perhaps the Livonian Order doesn't survive too long, and Novgorod becomes a full-blown province rather than just a client state of the Lithuanians. They'd be weaker than OTL, sure, but not out of the picture.

Catholicism becomes even more viable of an option to convert to than OTL, and if Galicia-Volhynia stays Catholic as well, it's not looking good for Orthodoxy.
 
With a strong Galicia-Volhynia, the Lithuanians would have to expand north instead.

Perhaps the Livonian Order doesn't survive too long, and Novgorod becomes a full-blown province rather than just a client state of the Lithuanians. They'd be weaker than OTL, sure, but not out of the picture.

Catholicism becomes even more viable of an option to convert to than OTL, and if Galicia-Volhynia stays Catholic as well, it's not looking good for Orthodoxy.
One of my original ideas for the POD included having Shvarno brother of the King of Galicia retain the Lithuanian throne, basically Lithuania would end up as an ally or vassal of Ruthenia.
 
One of my original ideas for the POD included having Shvarno brother of the King of Galicia retain the Lithuanian throne, basically Lithuania would end up as an ally or vassal of Ruthenia.
Hardly plausible. It's doubtful that Shvarn even actually ruled Lithuania (as in, came to Voruta and began ruling over the nation rather than sitting on his ass in Galicia. The fact that Vaišvilkas gave the throne to him is known), and there is no way that the Lithuanians would approve of a Russian ruler.

Traidenis or Daumantas would kick Shvarn out faster than he could say "Now you, Lithuanians, will serve under the nation that you beat in 1219"
 
Hardly plausible. It's doubtful that Shvarn even actually ruled Lithuania (as in, came to Voruta and began ruling over the nation rather than sitting on his ass in Galicia. The fact that Vaišvilkas gave the throne to him is known), and there is no way that the Lithuanians would approve of a Russian ruler.

Traidenis or Daumantas would kick Shvarn out faster than he could say "Now you, Lithuanians, will serve under the nation that you beat in 1219"

Why did Shvarno have the crown in the first place? While Ukrainian history is my forté this period is not my strong point.

I think Lithuania as a Ruthenian ally would be a great help. Perhaps Polotsk can remain Lithuanian, and instead Lithuania can focus on Livonia and Estonia?
 
Why did Shvarno have the crown in the first place? While Ukrainian history is my forté this period is not my strong point.

I think Lithuania as a Ruthenian ally would be a great help. Perhaps Polotsk can remain Lithuanian, and instead Lithuania can focus on Livonia and Estonia?
Shvarn was married to Mindaugas's sister, and the king before him, Vaišvilkas (son of Mindaugas), gave the throne to him after killing his father's killer so he could go and become a monk. That is, until Shvarn's brother killed him back.
 
Shvarn was married to Mindaugas's sister, and the king before him, Vaišvilkas (son of Mindaugas), gave the throne to him after killing his father's killer so he could go and become a monk. That is, until Shvarn's brother killed him back.
That's not confusing at all.

So Shvarno is probably not living long in this scenario. Maybe some sort of alliance can be temporarily maintained? I think such shall be important if we want a strong Ruthenia and hopefully that Poland Partition. We also need a Ruthenian Lithuanian alliance if we don't want the order to become to powerful in the vacuum.
 
That's not confusing at all.

So Shvarno is probably not living long in this scenario. Maybe some sort of alliance can be temporarily maintained? I think such shall be important if we want a strong Ruthenia and hopefully that Poland Partition. We also need a Ruthenian Lithuanian alliance if we don't want the order to become to powerful in the vacuum.
I think Ruthenia and Lithuania could enter an alliance, yes, despite the border friction and religious differences between them. They were allied through marriage at that time, too.
 
I think Ruthenia and Lithuania could enter an alliance, yes, despite the border friction and religious differences between them. They were allied through marriage at that time, too.

Good, then if we do that early Poland partition Lithuania can have a piece of the pie as well.

The question for me, though is in what way will Ruthenian expand to the South and East? It is inevitable because of the wealth and value of the land is surely enough of a pull.
 
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