WI: Friedrich the Wise, Elector of Saxony's Wife and Children

Surprise! Yeah, Martin Luther's patron did have kids (that part almost everyone knows), but after Margarethe of Austria rebuffed Friedrich's suit for her hand, he decided to make himself happy (and screw the politics). He married (in secret, since it would've been morganatic) a lady at court, Anna Molsdorff, widow of one of Friedrich's courtiers, one Bernhard Watzler, hence Luther's referring to Anna as "der Watzlerinne" (the Watzler woman).

There were four children born of this marriage, three sons (Friedrich, born in 1506, died the following year; Sebastian, born in 1507 and was stabbed to death at Fünen in 1535; and Jerome, born in 1509, and who seems to disappear from the historical record after his dad's death (perhaps he died young?)) and a daughter (whose name we don't know, born around 1512 and survived her dad).

Wait, so how do we know that der Watzlerinne wasn't just a bit on the side? Well, contemporary documents speak of the children of Friedrich the Wise, but never make references to them being illegitimate. Not only that, but people who were at the contemporary Saxon court, like Martin Luther, Lucas Cranach the Elder and Elisabeth, Countess of Rochlitz, among others, make mention of the fact that Anna and Friedrich were married, although, Rochlitz notes, to prevent any hint of "impropriety", if Friedrich wished to see Anna, she was brought to see him at night. Everyone knew that Anna's kids were the elector's. Her two sons were received at court, and the thirteen year old daughter was remembered in Friedrich's will (with regards to a dowry) from what I can make out. Sort of like everyone "knew" about Louis XIV and Mme de Maintenon's secret marriage.

Now comes the WI. The marriage was both secret and morganatic (not necessarily the same thing. The secret part - Friedrich even denied a marriage when asked outright in 1506 - was because Friedrich's contemporaries would've looked down their noses at him for wedding the scullery maid. While the morganatic would've been insisted on to prevent Bastei (Sebastian) from pushing any claim to the Saxon electorate). And Friedrich's brother, Johann the Constant, married Sibylle of Cleves and the rest is history. But what if some situation occurs where Friedrich both acknowledges the marriage and declares "Bastei" (he was reportedly very attached to his children) to be the "erbprinz" of Saxony? I'm not sure how this would occur, @Dr. Waterhouse, or if it would even be a valid argument, but I thought it would be a fun thought exercise.
 
Surprise! Yeah, Martin Luther's patron did have kids (that part almost everyone knows), but after Margarethe of Austria rebuffed Friedrich's suit for her hand, he decided to make himself happy (and screw the politics). He married (in secret, since it would've been morganatic) a lady at court, Anna Molsdorff, widow of one of Friedrich's courtiers, one Bernhard Watzler, hence Luther's referring to Anna as "der Watzlerinne" (the Watzler woman).

There were four children born of this marriage, three sons (Friedrich, born in 1506, died the following year; Sebastian, born in 1507 and was stabbed to death at Fünen in 1535; and Jerome, born in 1509, and who seems to disappear from the historical record after his dad's death (perhaps he died young?)) and a daughter (whose name we don't know, born around 1512 and survived her dad).

Wait, so how do we know that der Watzlerinne wasn't just a bit on the side? Well, contemporary documents speak of the children of Friedrich the Wise, but never make references to them being illegitimate. Not only that, but people who were at the contemporary Saxon court, like Martin Luther, Lucas Cranach the Elder and Elisabeth, Countess of Rochlitz, among others, make mention of the fact that Anna and Friedrich were married, although, Rochlitz notes, to prevent any hint of "impropriety", if Friedrich wished to see Anna, she was brought to see him at night. Everyone knew that Anna's kids were the elector's. Her two sons were received at court, and the thirteen year old daughter was remembered in Friedrich's will (with regards to a dowry) from what I can make out. Sort of like everyone "knew" about Louis XIV and Mme de Maintenon's secret marriage.

Now comes the WI. The marriage was both secret and morganatic (not necessarily the same thing. The secret part - Friedrich even denied a marriage when asked outright in 1506 - was because Friedrich's contemporaries would've looked down their noses at him for wedding the scullery maid. While the morganatic would've been insisted on to prevent Bastei (Sebastian) from pushing any claim to the Saxon electorate). And Friedrich's brother, Johann the Constant, married Sibylle of Cleves and the rest is history. But what if some situation occurs where Friedrich both acknowledges the marriage and declares "Bastei" (he was reportedly very attached to his children) to be the "erbprinz" of Saxony? I'm not sure how this would occur, @Dr. Waterhouse, or if it would even be a valid argument, but I thought it would be a fun thought exercise.
The marriage between Fred and Gretl could happen but avoid Gretl’s marriage with Philibert of Savoy.
 
Well, I had thought morganatic marriages, though originating from a germanic custom, had a later development in their use in circumventing certain problems of succession. I've read that it developed for our purposes in the debates around Philip of Hesse, some years after Friedrich and Anna. In that case, the second "unequal" marriage to Margarethe von der Saale was void because of the prior wedding. So by the standards really of all inheritance law until the 20th century the children of the void bigamous marriage had no legal rights as descendants of the father. But before that, if you look at say the unequal marriage of Edward IV, everyone was making arguments as to why that may not have been a legally effective wedding, but the inequality of the two principles were not an argument for the actual invalidity of the marriage, as I understand it (though it may have been an argument against its wisdom).

So I think it very likely Friedrich had more substantial reasons for his public stance of "Who? Me? Married, why no!" Probably because if he did publicly acknowledge a marriage it would begin to trigger just these legal questions as to the succession.

Also, keep in mind the fact that Martin Luther and other people were writing about the marriage may not necessarily mean a legally effective ceremony was performed. Think about it this way: we are a good five hundred years from the vocabulary of partners, or even longtime companions, much less boyfriends and girlfriends. The vocabulary of husbands and wives would have fit the late medieval mind as well as anything else to describe a long term companionate sexual relationship between a man and a woman resulting in children, regardless of whether a ceremony had been performed and the legal requirements for a wedding observed, or not. (I'm not arguing against you, I'm just saying these are possibilities to be considered.)

But long story short, if Friedrich and Anna did have a ceremony, and Friedrich subsequently wanted to make a son by Anna his heir? Well, I think Johann was not a pushover. He was helping put down the Peasants' Revolt at the time Friedrich was dying at Lochau with his kids around him. Regardless of what arrangement may have existed between them, how much force the rules preventing the division of an electorate had in reality, and just how much of a threat this very powerful and competent younger brother could present to "Bastei", these are fundamentally practical and political impediments. As to legal impediments, I think it would be straightforward that the product of a lawful union would inherit from the father.

Now maybe someone can give me examples to the contrary of morganatic unions before 1500 in which marriages that were otherwise legally effective were not, because of the inequality of the parties, leading to the cancellation of the succession rights in the offspring. But right now I'm thinking at that point in European history, lawful union yields inheritance and succession rights, purely as a matter of law.
 
But long story short, if Friedrich and Anna did have a ceremony, and Friedrich subsequently wanted to make a son by Anna his heir? Well, I think Johann was not a pushover. He was helping put down the Peasants' Revolt at the time Friedrich was dying at Lochau with his kids around him. Regardless of what arrangement may have existed between them, how much force the rules preventing the division of an electorate had in reality, and just how much of a threat this very powerful and competent younger brother could present to "Bastei", these are fundamentally practical and political impediments. As to legal impediments, I think it would be straightforward that the product of a lawful union would inherit from the father.

What if Johann the Constant were to die without issue before Friedrich the Wise. Thus prompting Fritz to name Bastei as heir (maybe even marry Bastei off to Johann's fiancée/widow, Sibylle of Cleves - Cleves can hardly object, their own inheritance has passed through female hands and to kids of "lower" marriages as well ). Could someone from the Albertine line lodge a complaint and go to war over it?
 
What if Johann the Constant were to die without issue before Friedrich the Wise. Thus prompting Fritz to name Bastei as heir (maybe even marry Bastei off to Johann's fiancée/widow, Sibylle of Cleves - Cleves can hardly object, their own inheritance has passed through female hands and to kids of "lower" marriages as well ). Could someone from the Albertine line lodge a complaint and go to war over it?

Well that gets really juicy, doesn't it? Now, let's say Johann predeceases Friedrich, and the third brother Wolfgang also predeceases Friedrich (and he is without heirs as the Bishop of Magdeburg). At that point, even though inheritance through the female line is disfavored, you have situations where it happens in during this period in Prussia and Cleves, and in this situation that means the involvement of the Duchy of Braunschweig (Johann and Friedrich's sister Margaretha) and the Kingdom of Denmark (Johann and Friedrich's sister Christina), neither of whom are players one can just discount. You have the possibility of Friedrich making a son by Anna his heir. And you have the Albertines. It could be a real mess. And lurking behind it all, if it happens late enough, is the question of Luther. Because remember, though different Albertines have different positions, no one in that line really embraces the Reformation until very late. Certainly Duke Georg left little doubt as to Luther's life-span if he had anything to say about it (his message to Luther and Katarina von Bora on the occasion of their wedding: "Death to whores!"). So who wins that succession struggle has great consequence. Also, if Friedrich is coming to the end of his life, and is certain an Albertine succession in Ernestine Saxony means Luther's death, more reason to upset all the applecarts and try to give it all to Bastei.

One nitpick, here. Johann the Steadfast's two wives are Sofie of Mecklenburg and Margaretha of Anhalt. Sybille of Cleves is Johann Friedrich's wife. Perhaps a wire got crossed because in my timeline she is the wife of the Duke Johann who is the son of Johann the Steadfast? Oh well, it's a small point.

EDIT: Christina was the eldest daughter. That means Friedrich's death after 1513 might give her son Christian II of Denmark a chance. He certainly wouldn't decline to assert a claim out of deference if he were otherwise able. And he is married to Isabella of Castile, so unless they've started drifting towards Lutheranism by this point the Emperor is going to want to help his sis out.
 
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Well that gets really juicy, doesn't it? Now, let's say Johann predeceases Friedrich, and the third brother Wolfgang also predeceases Friedrich (and he is without heirs as the Bishop of Magdeburg). At that point, even though inheritance through the female line is disfavored, you have situations where it happens in during this period in Prussia and Cleves, and in this situation that means the involvement of the Duchy of Braunschweig (Johann and Friedrich's sister Margaretha) and the Kingdom of Denmark (Johann and Friedrich's sister Christina), neither of whom are players one can just discount. You have the possibility of Friedrich making a son by Anna his heir. And you have the Albertines. It could be a real mess. And lurking behind it all, if it happens late enough, is the question of Luther. Because remember, though different Albertines have different positions, no one in that line really embraces the Reformation until very late. Certainly Duke Georg left little doubt as to Luther's life-span if he had anything to say about it (his message to Luther and Katarina von Bora on the occasion of their wedding: "Death to whores!"). So who wins that succession struggle has great consequence. Also, if Friedrich is coming to the end of his life, and is certain an Albertine succession in Ernestine Saxony means Luther's death, more reason to upset all the applecarts and try to give it all to Bastei.

As I pointed out with Cleves (and Guelders, and one or two other Rhineland/Burgundian states) the inheritance via the distaff line was permitted. And Prussia only became a duchy in the 1520s, with special remainder to pass to the Franconian Hohenzollerns should the original holder of the title duke of Prussia's line die out. When it did pass to Brandenburg via the distaff line it was at the special intervention of the king of Poland IIRC (summoning @Jan Olbracht to help on this point). The War of the Landshut Succession was wrapped up in the early 1500s where just such a thing had happened, so I'm not sure that Saxony's going to go for female line succession if it can be avoided.

I could be wrong, but I think it was likewise specified that electorates couldn't be transferred through the female line. Since when the previous electoral dynasty of Saxony died out, there would've been female heirs, but I don't think the Wettins were at the front of that queue. @Zulfurium had a discussion once on who would or would not be granted an electorate if things had been different.

One nitpick, here. Johann the Steadfast's two wives are Sofie of Mecklenburg and Margaretha of Anhalt. Sybille of Cleves is Johann Friedrich's wife. Perhaps a wire got crossed because in my timeline she is the wife of the Duke Johann who is the son of Johann the Steadfast? Oh well, it's a small point.

I realized that after I posted that Johann the Constant and Johann Friedrich are father and son. I don't know why I got the two mixed up. Call it a keyboard gremlin.

EDIT: Christina was the eldest daughter. That means Friedrich's death after 1513 might give her son Christian II of Denmark a chance. He certainly wouldn't decline to assert a claim out of deference if he were otherwise able. And he is married to Isabella of Castile, so unless they've started drifting towards Lutheranism by this point the Emperor is going to want to help his sis out.

Help his sister out, perhaps. But if things happen on schedule, Friedrich the Wise dies in May 1525. Isabella of Austria/Castile/Burgundy dies in January 1526. While Karl may have wanted to help Christian out, he just kept getting busy and he wasn't really able to. He's going up against the Albertines (who are going be saying "we're still Catholic and male line relatives. We'll fight you on this"), who are very likely going to be able to get backing from Hesse, Brandenburg, Poland. So, I think a Karl who pushes for the "former" (if Christian still winds up deposed, which isn't a given, @Milites might be able to elaborate more) or current king of Denmark (if he manages to hang on) is opening a whole can of worms that might be worse than anything the Reformation threw at him out of Saxony OTL.

In fact, I'm not sure where Georg the Bearded stood on the whole Habsburg thing. Friedrich the Wise was rather friendly towards them (AIUI). So Karl might decide to bite the bullet (if Georg is while not anti-Habsburg, certainly more pro-Wettin than anything else) and after his attempts to push the king of Denmark (or his son)'s candidacy as elector fail, say "to heck with it" and accept Friedrich's acknowledgement of the marriage (I can't seem to find anything that says which side Bastei came down on - Reformed or Catholic) - maybe tie up things by marrying Bastei to Christian II's daughter? Or else, simply create a new electoral dynasty. When the Saxe-Wittenburgs had gone extinct, the Saxe-Lauenburgs were bypassed for the electorate, for instance.
 
You're right re descent in the female line with respect to the electoral dignity.

Here's the language from the Golden Bull:

By the present ever-to-be-valid law, that when these same secular prince electors, or any of them, shall die, the right, vote and power of thus electing shall, freely and without the contradiction of any one, devolve on his first born, legitimate, lay son; but, if he be not living, on the son of this same first born son, if he be a layman. If, however, such first born son shall have departed from this world without leaving male legitimate lay heirs,-by virtue of the present imperial edict, the right, vote and aforesaid power of electing shall devolve upon the elder lay brother descended by the true paternal line, and thence upon his first born lay son. And such succession of the first born sons, and of the heirs of these same princes, to their right, vote and power, shall be observed in all future time; under such rule and condition, however, that if a prince elector, or his first born or eldest lay son, should happen to die leaving male, legitimate, lay heirs who are minors, then the eldest of the brothers of that elector, or of his first born son, shall be their tutor and administrator until the eldest of them shall have attained legitimate age. Which age we wish to have considered, and we decree that it shall be considered, eighteen full years in the case of prince electors; and, when they shall have attained this, the guardian shall straightway be obliged to resign to them completely, together with his office, the right, vote and power, and all that these involve.
 
Help his sister out, perhaps. But if things happen on schedule, Friedrich the Wise dies in May 1525. Isabella of Austria/Castile/Burgundy dies in January 1526. While Karl may have wanted to help Christian out, he just kept getting busy and he wasn't really able to. He's going up against the Albertines (who are going be saying "we're still Catholic and male line relatives. We'll fight you on this"), who are very likely going to be able to get backing from Hesse, Brandenburg, Poland. So, I think a Karl who pushes for the "former" (if Christian still winds up deposed, which isn't a given, @Milites might be able to elaborate more) or current king of Denmark (if he manages to hang on) is opening a whole can of worms that might be worse than anything the Reformation threw at him out of Saxony OTL.

In fact, I'm not sure where Georg the Bearded stood on the whole Habsburg thing. Friedrich the Wise was rather friendly towards them (AIUI). So Karl might decide to bite the bullet (if Georg is while not anti-Habsburg, certainly more pro-Wettin than anything else) and after his attempts to push the king of Denmark (or his son)'s candidacy as elector fail, say "to heck with it" and accept Friedrich's acknowledgement of the marriage (I can't seem to find anything that says which side Bastei came down on - Reformed or Catholic) - maybe tie up things by marrying Bastei to Christian II's daughter? Or else, simply create a new electoral dynasty. When the Saxe-Wittenburgs had gone extinct, the Saxe-Lauenburgs were bypassed for the electorate, for instance.

Well, if things happen on schedule, Karl V is just not going to get involved, because by that point Christian and Isabella are enthusiasts for the Reformation. The sweet spot for Christian would be if he could make a grab for the Saxon succession following his father's death in 1513 but before he's deposed in 1523, so that he can leverage the power of the kingdom, that would also help keep religion from being a problem for him. I don't want to dilate too much on the question of succession through the female line, but we all know that in this period the better succession claim according to the law is one thing, an army is quite another.

I guess so much of the rest would depend on who lines up to fight on the Albertines, how politically secure Christian is, and whether the Habsburgs bestir themselves.

As to Georg's policy toward the Habsburgs, that is something I know the answer to. His wish was that if the succession to ducal Saxony were to fall to a Protestant, that the Habsburgs would intervene and take over (I don't know if he specified Karl or Ferdinand).

One final thought would be you might want your point of departure to be the Peasants' War. I believe Johann and Johann Friedrich went to see Muentzer preach. They're assassinated, or otherwise get caught up in the violence. The result of that news is panic, and in that panic Johann Ernst the younger son by Margarethe of Anhalt is killed. Beyond that, what you might want to consider is actually that Bastei is not the first person they turn to, or otherwise held up as the immediate successor. Imagine if in the late 1520's the Catholic Albertines come to power in Saxony. Rebellion would be inevitable. Likewise, if Christian of Denmark were to come to power. Even as a coreligionist, he seems a figure whose rule would sew intense division. Instead you need the beat of an unendurable change of policy to make the otherwise unlikely necessary.
 
Indeed, Ducal Prussia is bad analouge as example of female line inheritance, it was outside HRE and Sigismund III allowed Elector of Brandenburg to inherit the Duchy (against will of Prussian nobility!) because he needed Protestant ally in his struggle to regain Swedish throne.
 
One final thought would be you might want your point of departure to be the Peasants' War. I believe Johann and Johann Friedrich went to see Muentzer preach. They're assassinated, or otherwise get caught up in the violence. The result of that news is panic, and in that panic Johann Ernst the younger son by Margarethe of Anhalt is killed. Beyond that, what you might want to consider is actually that Bastei is not the first person they turn to, or otherwise held up as the immediate successor. Imagine if in the late 1520's the Catholic Albertines come to power in Saxony. Rebellion would be inevitable. Likewise, if Christian of Denmark were to come to power. Even as a coreligionist, he seems a figure whose rule would sew intense division. Instead you need the beat of an unendurable change of policy to make the otherwise unlikely necessary.

That actually sounds like a retty plausible POD. If Georg is seen as a "worse ruler" (not necessarily because he's Catholic. In the mid-1520s IDK if the designations Catholic vs Protestant were as loaded as they later became), perhaps he's seen as too friendly with the Habsburgs (or whatever) and the Saxon estates plead with Friedrich that they'll rather take a morganaut than a tyrant/slave of Rome?
 
That actually sounds like a retty plausible POD. If Georg is seen as a "worse ruler" (not necessarily because he's Catholic. In the mid-1520s IDK if the designations Catholic vs Protestant were as loaded as they later became), perhaps he's seen as too friendly with the Habsburgs (or whatever) and the Saxon estates plead with Friedrich that they'll rather take a morganaut than a tyrant/slave of Rome?

Well, as to the Georg angle that part pretty much writes itself. We know, because he says so ("death to whores!"--what a card to send someone for their wedding) that in 1525 Georg wants to kill Luther. So if he succeeds that year as the Elector of Saxony, he kills Luther. There's your provocation. Wham, bam, thank you ma'am.

BONUS: A lot of Luther's more, ahem, controversial writings now never get written. Instead he's a martyr, and as such is much less trouble for his followers than in our timeline.
 
BONUS: A lot of Luther's more, ahem, controversial writings now never get written. Instead he's a martyr, and as such is much less trouble for his followers than in our timeline.

As a martyr I would imagine he's MUCH more dangerous, because people can make a dead man say almost anything. The pope and Karl V would probably get him gift-wrapped from Georg - complete with a card that says "Warmest Wishes".

Still, Luther dead in 1525 can have interesting effects on the Reformation (if that still happens as OTL). AIUI Muentzer and Karlstaedt were far more radical than Luther
 
So, I think a Karl who pushes for the "former" (if Christian still winds up deposed, which isn't a given, @Milites might be able to elaborate more) or current king of Denmark (if he manages to hang on) is opening a whole can of worms that might be worse than anything the Reformation threw at him out of Saxony OTL.

If events in Scandinavia run their course as in OTL, Christian is going to end up deposed. He had too few friends, too many enemies and not enough money.
 
If events in Scandinavia run their course as in OTL, Christian is going to end up deposed. He had too few friends, too many enemies and not enough money.

Fair enough. I just wondered with a POD before King Hans dies if Christian II might be able to make a go of it
 
Fair enough. I just wondered with a POD before King Hans dies if Christian II might be able to make a go of it

Sure there is - keep Christian from meeting Dyveke or kill her and her mother off before Sigbritt can plant too much radical burgher talk in the prince’s ear. That’s one way to easen the tension, but a lot of the discontent with Christian was also grounded in his wars in Sweden. I hear there’s a pretty boss timeline with the PoD, by the way ;)
 
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