WI: French South Africa

So in OTL in the 1500s and 1600s French Huguenots and French Catholics attempted to settle the Americas at least theee notable times that failed:

France Antarctique in Brazil 1555-1567

Fort Caroline in Florida 1564-1565

France Equinoxiale in Brazil 1612-1615

POD: The original settlement destined for France Antarctique decides to settle at the Cape of Good Hope in 1555 instead. It doesn't end up being destroyed by the Portuguese the way France Antarctique did in OTL and is joined by the settlers that in OTL went to Fort Caroline in Florida and were slaughtered by the Spanish. While it starts of Huguenot, Catholics do end up moving there as well, and the colony is allowed to be religious tolerant due to its Huguenot foundings with more French Protestants settling there after religious tensions in France proper.

How would a French South Africa develop after the initial founding of Fort Coligny (OTL Capetown) in the 1550s?
 
Well, as per OTL lots of wine will be grown on the cape (Huguenot-descended Dutchmen were an important part of the original settler population, after all).

I think that an equivalent of the voortrek will take place, with some factions of Huguenots packing up and moving north due to religious tensions. How similar they act to OTL's voortrekers is different, though. Perhaps they will be more tolerant of race-mixing, and instead of a 'Boer' you will have a 'Metis' culture spring up as they convert and marry indigenous South Africans.

The San may well be destroyed through enslavement, but there is a possibility that they will survive on missions run by Jesuits or other orders of priests. Protestant-founded or not, as the colony is controlled by French authorities Catholic evangelism to the Africans will become a major part of the colony's purpose.

I think the slave trade will be a major economic factor as well, with French-aligned native groups armed and paid to capture slaves for export. Brazil will be a market for South African slaves, as will any outpost that the French develop in the tropical Americas ITTL.
 
Well, as per OTL lots of wine will be grown on the cape (Huguenot-descended Dutchmen were an important part of the original settler population, after all).

I think that an equivalent of the voortrek will take place, with some factions of Huguenots packing up and moving north due to religious tensions. How similar they act to OTL's voortrekers is different, though. Perhaps they will be more tolerant of race-mixing, and instead of a 'Boer' you will have a 'Metis' culture spring up as they convert and marry indigenous South Africans.

The San may well be destroyed through enslavement, but there is a possibility that they will survive on missions run by Jesuits or other orders of priests. Protestant-founded or not, as the colony is controlled by French authorities Catholic evangelism to the Africans will become a major part of the colony's purpose.

I think the slave trade will be a major economic factor as well, with French-aligned native groups armed and paid to capture slaves for export. Brazil will be a market for South African slaves, as will any outpost that the French develop in the tropical Americas ITTL.

Maybe but if we see French ultra-Calvinist Huguenots moving out of the Cape region to escape Catholicism, they might be adverse to racial intermixing, which could even be seen as a Catholic thing. Huguenots would probably be moving as families while Catholics would be moving as traders for Eastern trade with the Indies and would likely be single and more prone to intermarry with native women. Would create an interesting dynamic: Catholic pure blooded Frenchmen, Catholic metis, and Huguenot purebloods who don't want to deal with either of the above and so push further out as vachers (cowherders) eventually discovering gold and diamonds.
 
Well, as per OTL lots of wine will be grown on the cape (Huguenot-descended Dutchmen were an important part of the original settler population, after all).

I think that an equivalent of the voortrek will take place, with some factions of Huguenots packing up and moving north due to religious tensions. How similar they act to OTL's voortrekers is different, though. Perhaps they will be more tolerant of race-mixing, and instead of a 'Boer' you will have a 'Metis' culture spring up as they convert and marry indigenous South Africans.

The San may well be destroyed through enslavement, but there is a possibility that they will survive on missions run by Jesuits or other orders of priests. Protestant-founded or not, as the colony is controlled by French authorities Catholic evangelism to the Africans will become a major part of the colony's purpose.

I think the slave trade will be a major economic factor as well, with French-aligned native groups armed and paid to capture slaves for export. Brazil will be a market for South African slaves, as will any outpost that the French develop in the tropical Americas ITTL.

Just so you know I've seen about 150 white Afrikaner genetic test result and only a couple were 100% white.
 
Just so you know I've seen about 150 white Afrikaner genetic test result and only a couple were 100% white.

Perhaps it would be more accurate to say "they won't pretend otherwise" than to say "they will be more mixed". But @Sevarics does raise a good point, whether Dutch or French the "chosen people" complex of Calvinism does easily lend itself to race-based segregation.
 
To say that only a couple were "100% white" (I don't know what that necessarily means) is IMHO an overstatement. It's true that Afrikaners had some African blood, a little bit more than the average WASP and much less than the average Latino. Also, he also raises a good point when he divides this new world society in two: the fortune-seeker Catholic single man and the refugee Protestant family. Nothing more natural than to have a higher degree of mixing amongst Catholics and a inclination to segregation in Protestant communities.
 
To say that only a couple were "100% white" (I don't know what that necessarily means) is IMHO an overstatement. It's true that Afrikaners had some African blood, a little bit more than the average WASP and much less than the average Latino. Also, he also raises a good point when he divides this new world society in two: the fortune-seeker Catholic single man and the refugee Protestant family. Nothing more natural than to have a higher degree of mixing amongst Catholics and a inclination to segregation in Protestant communities.

The DNA results I saw always had a 2-10% Southeast Asian, Khoi, Bantu and/or South Asian component. That's what I mean.
 
Would the eventual Catholic settlement of the Cape lead to creole religions in the same way you ended up with Vodou and Santeria in the Caribbean?
 
Would the eventual Catholic settlement of the Cape lead to creole religions in the same way you ended up with Vodou and Santeria in the Caribbean?

Maybe. There are syncretic elements in some forms of continental African Catholicism. But the higher concentration of French settlers might lead to it being more traditional Christian theology
 
Would the eventual Catholic settlement of the Cape lead to creole religions in the same way you ended up with Vodou and Santeria in the Caribbean?

These American traditions were mostly based on West African religions. OTL Cape Colony receveid A LOT of slaves (but mostly from Indonesia, Madagascar and Mozambique). Considering the geographic position of the Cape and its close connection to the Indian Ocean trade, I'd guess that syncretic religion will have a bigger Muslim and Hindu influence (I'm also assuming that Catholic rulers wouldn't allow slaves to freely practice their Muslim faith).
 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Bartholomew's_Day_massacre

So the St Bartholomew's Day Massacre would occur 20 years after the foundation of Fort Coligny on the Cape of Good Hope if it weren't butterflied away. Let's say it still happens. With an established Huguenot colony, maybe we see a slight uptick in migration to South Africa, even if it's only a few hundred to a couple thousand Huguenots, it would add up.
 
Would the eventual Catholic settlement of the Cape lead to creole religions in the same way you ended up with Vodou and Santeria in the Caribbean?
Looking at the lowland Madagascar Catholic communities that incorporate the Great Zimbabwean Tromba cult to this day in all likelihood a folk Catholic tradition would form along with ancestor reverence
These American traditions were mostly based on West African religions. OTL Cape Colony receveid A LOT of slaves (but mostly from Indonesia, Madagascar and Mozambique). Considering the geographic position of the Cape and its close connection to the Indian Ocean trade, I'd guess that syncretic religion will have a bigger Muslim and Hindu influence (I'm also assuming that Catholic rulers wouldn't allow slaves to freely practice their Muslim faith).
Hinduism had more impact on the southeast African coast than the regions most slaves came from in the Cape and even then by the time of European contact it wasn't at all active in any sense of it being recongizable as such.

Islam remained in spite of Calvinism, Catholics really won't end it conpletely either.
 
Looking at the lowland Madagascar Catholic communities that incorporate the Great Zimbabwean Tromba cult to this day in all likelihood a folk Catholic tradition would form along with ancestor reverence

Hinduism had more impact on the southeast African coast than the regions most slaves came from in the Cape and even then by the time of European contact it wasn't at all active in any sense of it being recongizable as such.

Islam remained in spite of Calvinism, Catholics really won't end it conpletely either.

One of the popes passed a bull against ancestor worship in Chinese Christians in the 18th century, so it's not unthinkable that a pope might issue a similar document against African syncretism

As to Calvinism not making inroads against the Muslims it had to do with the fact that the Dutch cared about guilders not religion at the Cape. Van Riebeeck arrived in April 1652, and the first church building was only built at the dawn of the 18th century. The Dutch allowed the Malay slaves to retain their religion, the French OTOH might react differently, whether they're Catholics or Huguenots.
 
One of the popes passed a bull against ancestor worship in Chinese Christians in the 18th century, so it's not unthinkable that a pope might issue a similar document against African syncretism

As to Calvinism not making inroads against the Muslims it had to do with the fact that the Dutch cared about guilders not religion at the Cape. Van Riebeeck arrived in April 1652, and the first church building was only built at the dawn of the 18th century. The Dutch allowed the Malay slaves to retain their religion, the French OTOH might react differently, whether they're Catholics or Huguenots.
I mean you can try all you want but someone gonna cast a hex on that ass regardless of what officials say. Hoodoo only petered out after WWII with money, even then it persisted in rural and poor urban areas to this day in one way or another.
 
I wonder what the presence of a French colony in South Africa would do for French incursions in India and the East Indies. Would we see slightly more successful trade posts? Would they be better off at preventing British incursions? Would French South Africa lead to French settlements in Australia and/or New Zealand? Heck maybe some Huguenots get tired of Catholic control of the Cape and get on a boat and end up in Western Australia and repeat the trek across it
 
I wonder what the presence of a French colony in South Africa would do for French incursions in India and the East Indies. Would we see slightly more successful trade posts? Would they be better off at preventing British incursions? Would French South Africa lead to French settlements in Australia and/or New Zealand? Heck maybe some Huguenots get tired of Catholic control of the Cape and get on a boat and end up in Western Australia and repeat the trek across it


I think it makes French incursions into the East Indies and India occur earlier. Whether they are ultimately more successful is a very different matter. Given the Portuguese disruption of the Indian Ocean trade, the French certainly will have opportunities to work with local allies. IIRC the Ottomans had an Indian Ocean fleet, and there is historical precedent for a Franco-Ottoman alliance that could leave French outposts quite secure from rival Europeans.

If the French are landing earlier in Indonesia I think it is quite likely that they will stumble upon Australia at least, but whether they do anything with the knowledge of this continent's existence is a different matter. There's not much trade to be had, and the areas they are most likely to land on can be best described as environmentally hostile to a European settler colony.
 
I think it makes French incursions into the East Indies and India occur earlier. Whether they are ultimately more successful is a very different matter. Given the Portuguese disruption of the Indian Ocean trade, the French certainly will have opportunities to work with local allies. IIRC the Ottomans had an Indian Ocean fleet, and there is historical precedent for a Franco-Ottoman alliance that could leave French outposts quite secure from rival Europeans.

If the French are landing earlier in Indonesia I think it is quite likely that they will stumble upon Australia at least, but whether they do anything with the knowledge of this continent's existence is a different matter. There's not much trade to be had, and the areas they are most likely to land on can be best described as environmentally hostile to a European settler colony.

Didn't the Dutch know of Australia's existence for quite a while before the British actually decided to do somegthing about it? I mean, it's possible that here Australia gets colonised seperately by the French and/or the Dutch and/or the English/Portuguese/whoever.
 
Didn't the Dutch know of Australia's existence for quite a while before the British actually decided to do somegthing about it? I mean, it's possible that here Australia gets colonised seperately by the French and/or the Dutch and/or the English/Portuguese/whoever.

The Dutch East India Comoany knew about it but they only exploited nowable profit areas. A Huguenot settlement in South Africa seeking to escape Catholic control would be more likely to utilize Australia and New Zealand imo
 
Didn't the Dutch know of Australia's existence for quite a while before the British actually decided to do somegthing about it? I mean, it's possible that here Australia gets colonised seperately by the French and/or the Dutch and/or the English/Portuguese/whoever.

That is correct. The Dutch knew about Australia, New Zealand, Fiji and Tonga for over a century before the British (specifically Captain Cook) explored those areas. It's a pretty important factor to keep in mind for Alternate History-just because some place *can* be colonized does not mean that it will be, if the political/economic/social/military motivations are not there.
 
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