WI French Sexual Revolution Endures

One of the lesser known achievements of the French Revolution were the groundbreakingly progressive family laws:

Stephanie Coontz said:
The revolutionary government in France made divorce the most accessible it would be until 1975 and also abolished the legal penalties for homosexual acts. Such penalties ran contrary to the Enlightenment principles that the state should remain aloof from people's private lives. "Sodomy violates the rights of no man" said Condorcet...

During the 1790s the French revolutionaries redefined marriage as a freely chosen civil contract, abolished the right of fathers to imprison children to compel obedience, mandated equal inheritance for daughters and sons, and even challenged the practice of denying inheritance rights to illegitimate children, the cornerstone of property rights for thousands of years... A revolutionary slogan proclaimed proudly: "There are no bastards in France".

Alas, like many of the revolutions achievements, they were short lived:

Although Napoleon repealed France's liberal divorce law in the early 1800s, he reaffirmed the decriminalization of homosexuality... The Napoleonic code of 1804 prohibited wives in France from signing contracts, trading property, or opening bank accounts in their own names.

So, what if these laws had stuck? How would gender, family, and society -- in France, Europe, and the world -- be changed in the 19th Century?

(quotes are taken from Marriage: A History by Stephanie Coontz)
 

jahenders

Banned
As with many things in the revolution it was all "too much, too soon," was not widely supported, and probably couldn't last.

If they did make those policies/ideas stick, it could have caused some substantial social instability in France and might have affected French cohesion in the Napoleanic era. For example, would French soldiers have been as willing to march off if there wives could divorce them on a whim, they might come home to illegitimate children, etc.

To be sustained, it would also imply an ongoing enmity toward, and suppression of, churches -- effectively dechristianizing France. Again, this could spark strong reaction and cause some instabililty (as the attempts to do so in the French Revolution did).

If sustained, France would ultimately evolve with a considerably different social structure from its neighbors, which could impact their diplomatic attempts.

In fact, if sustained through the Napoleanic era, I could see the victorius allies imposing some of religious compromises of Napolean's Concordat from OTL as part of the peace agreement.
 
If they did make those policies/ideas stick, it could have caused some substantial social instability in France and might have affected French cohesion in the Napoleanic era. For example, would French soldiers have been as willing to march off if there wives could divorce them on a whim, they might come home to illegitimate children, etc.

Ok, I should probably correct a couple things here:
  1. the divorce laws still required mutual consent, so no wife can unilatery divorce a husband who's at war
  2. the bastard laws required the father to provide for the children, not the cuckold on the front
 
Well, unfortunately I have absolutely no idea about any of this, but I'll give you a bump and subscribe to the thread because I'm totally fascinated by the concept.
 
Looking at OTL there is a golden opportunity:

Napoleon was born on 15 August 1769 to Carlo Maria di Buonaparte and Maria Letizia Ramolino in his family's ancestral home, Casa Buonaparte, in the town of Ajaccio, the capital of the island of Corsica was a Corsican lawyer and politician who briefly served as a personal assistant of the revolutionary leader Pasquale Paoli and eventually rose to become Corsica's representative to the court of Louis XVI.

Despite his father switching sides after the French intervention, Paoli and the revolution/era of independence left a heavy mark on Napoleon in his childhood. He was always hearing people lamenting about their lost cause. In fact Paoli became Napoleon's childhood hero. Now in OTL this influence waned a bit, but it is not inconceivable that under the right circumstances Napoleon could have seen himself as a roman style dictator preserving the legacy of the enlightenment and stay that way until his death. But why is his Corsican background so important for the original question? Simple, one has only look at the Corsican Constitution and political culture.

In November 1755, Pasquale Paoli proclaimed Corsica a sovereign nation, the Corsican Republic, independent from the Republic of Genoa. He created the Corsican Constitution, which was the first constitution written in Italian under Enlightenment principles, including the first implementation of female suffrage. Such a thing was made easier by the fact that traditionally, women had always voted in village elections for podestà i.e. village elders, and other local officials. So strong , somewhat independent woman shouldn't be a particularly alien concept to Napoleon and in an ATL may be even something ideologically desirable.

For the better acceptance of homosexuality it might be helpful if there was more additional intellectual fodder for a rational discourse. Maybe if Jeremy Bentham had published (1) Offences Against One's Self, an essay which runs to over 60 manuscript pages in defense of homosexuality it that might help. It was the first known argument for homosexual law reform in England. Bentham advocates the decriminalization of' sodomy, which in his day was punished by hanging. He argued that homosexual acts do not "weaken" men, or threaten population or marriage, and documents their prevalence in ancient Greece and Rome. Bentham opposes punishment on utilitarian grounds and attacks ascetic sexual morality. Might not be necessary, but could possibly help. But this is more of a side issue.

Assuming the following essential conditions are met:
“Napoleon dies while France is still in a strong position, but late enough for the law to have become entrenched into public consciousness” that might just barely safe the french sexual revolution.

(1) He would probably have to use a pseudonym first but he could always out himself later when he has less to lose.

(2) http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/eresources/exhibitions/sw25/bentham
 
Interesting answer; I had never thought to connect Napoleon's Corsican heritage to the island's republic.

Well, in OTL he didn't seem to have retained much of his initial idealism, so that is quiet understandable but yeah in a happier timeline he might have been an even more inspiring figure.
 
Stephanie Coontz
. . . A revolutionary slogan proclaimed proudly: "There are no bastards in France".
And that might be a big part of the answer. Emphasize the parts of Christianity such as where Jesus says, the least of these.
 
And that might be a big part of the answer. Emphasize the parts of Christianity such as where Jesus says, the least of these.

I'm beyond unfamiliar with the theological and on the streets religious impact of the French Revolution, so I suppose I can't really comment on the plausibility of this.
 
Would it help to prevent the French demographic decline? That would have profound implications for the history of the 19th and 20th centuries. It would put Germany and France as equals on the continent, if Germany is even able to unify against such a populous neighbour (who may decide to go down the conscription instead of professional path in the post-Napoleonic era, resulting in a different Franco-Prussian War).

Oh boy this is a good PoD.
 
Would it help to prevent the French demographic decline? That would have profound implications for the history of the 19th and 20th centuries. It would put Germany and France as equals on the continent, if Germany is even able to unify against such a populous neighbour (who may decide to go down the conscription instead of professional path in the post-Napoleonic era, resulting in a different Franco-Prussian War).

Oh boy this is a good PoD.

I would think that liberalizing divorce would lead to even fewer children being born. That has generally been the trend around the world. I'm not sure how it would work in the other direction.
 
I would think that liberalizing divorce would lead to even fewer children being born. That has generally been the trend around the world. I'm not sure how it would work in the other direction.

I don't think liberal divorce laws are the cause of low birth rates in developed nations. That has far more to do with the post-industrial equalization of birth and death rates.
 
I don't think liberal divorce laws are the cause of low birth rates in developed nations. That has far more to do with the post-industrial equalization of birth and death rates.

There are other factors, to be sure, but there appears to be a cultural component to it as well. Generally, societies where women have fewer rights - where they are basically the property of their husbands - are marked by high birthrates, while the reverse is true in those where women have expanded freedoms.

Also, with divorce running counter to Catholic teaching, keeping it freely available could have contributed to a earlier secularization of society, which is also something that tends to be accompanied by reduced family sizes.

Overall it's hard for me to imagine a scenario in which French women have much more freedom to leave their husbands and yet also produce more children. That seems very counter-intuitive.
 
The big issue with this is the Catholic Church and I think it's important to note that like the when those laws were passed the French Revolution had been taken over by the Jacobin's who were the extremist wing of the extremist wing of opponents of the Ancien Regieme. Partly by fluke and partly by their opponents discrediting themselves by trying to compromise with Louis XVI Robespierre and co took over but as the Thermidorian Reaction demonstrated they lacked broad support even in Paris, never mind the Provinces. In any popularity contest the Catholic Church, despite it's numerous flaws and problems was much, much more popular than the ultra-radical Jacobin's and that would win out in the end.
 

raharris1973

Gone Fishin'
Donor
Monthly Donor
Although Napoleon repealed France's liberal divorce law in the early 1800s, he reaffirmed the decriminalization of homosexuality.

What was the criminal status of homosexuality in France in the succeeding regimes of the 19th and 20th century? I imagine it was criminal again at least in Bourbon and Orleanist monarchical regimes, and probably some Republican ones as well.

...if not, remarkably more liberal than Britain.
 
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