WI: French press Saar Offensive

I have a hard time seeing France as utterly helpless to do anything to save its "ally" (ally being in quotes because a fat lot of help to Poland she was). France in 1939 was quite a bit better off than the Soviet Union in 1941, which due to skill or luck (mostly the latter) still managed to deny the Nazis a victory. France could have done a whole lot more if her leaders had received a good willpower transplant.
 
I have a hard time seeing France as utterly helpless to do anything to save its "ally" (ally being in quotes because a fat lot of help to Poland she was). France in 1939 was quite a bit better off than the Soviet Union in 1941, which due to skill or luck (mostly the latter) still managed to deny the Nazis a victory. France could have done a whole lot more if her leaders had received a good willpower transplant.

Hi Armchair Philosopher. I'm not sure if you read my draft timeline within this thread but that is exactly what she proceeds to do. The key, in my opinion, is to do as you say and provide her the necessary leadership. I believe Paul Reynaud is sufficient to the task. In OTL he became leader too late to save France (or Poland).
 
Hi Armchair Philosopher. I'm not sure if you read my draft timeline within this thread but that is exactly what she proceeds to do. The key, in my opinion, is to do as you say and provide her the necessary leadership. I believe Paul Reynaud is sufficient to the task. In OTL he became leader too late to save France (or Poland).

Hello Euromellows. No, I haven't actually read it yet but I will try to do so soon. :)
 
I have a hard time seeing France as utterly helpless to do anything to save its "ally" (ally being in quotes because a fat lot of help to Poland she was). France in 1939 was quite a bit better off than the Soviet Union in 1941, which due to skill or luck (mostly the latter) still managed to deny the Nazis a victory. France could have done a whole lot more if her leaders had received a good willpower transplant.

The Soviets in 1941 where saved by the idiotic german plan, not luck. The Germans counted on the Soviets falling apart after the initial battles, which was simply not going to happen. France's problem was defiantly leadership though.



@euromellows, I just read the draft TL, it looks good, and I hope to see more.
 
The Soviets in 1941 where saved by the idiotic german plan, not luck.
I count this as luck.

The Germans counted on the Soviets falling apart after the initial battles, which was simply not going to happen.
IOTL they pretty much did. What saved them was the Germans not having enough gas and munitions for one smooth, continuous roll, largely because of the BoB the year before and the Yugoslav/Crete/NA campaigns of earlier in 1941.
 
I count this as luck.


IOTL they pretty much did. What saved them was the Germans not having enough gas and munitions for one smooth, continuous roll, largely because of the BoB the year before and the Yugoslav/Crete/NA campaigns of earlier in 1941.

Yeah, that was the problem. And if they started earlier the Soviets still have a chance to recover, as the Germans will be slowed to a crawl as all of the roads turn into mud. I should have expanded on that by saying that the problem was that they counted on the Soviets falling apart immediately, and staying that way. That, and the fact that German logistics where a mess through out the entire war. In general, I feel that it would be hard for Germany to do all that much better then it did, and beating the Soviet Union would require a POD around 1933-1936.
 
The Nazis beating the Soviet Union would depend on:

--no US involvement in the war
--a more logical leader than Hitler (which might butterfly away Barbarossa to begin with)
--fewer catastrophic losses from the BoB and the spring '41 campaigns in the Med

But the Germany of 1939 was nowhere near being able to take on the Soviet Union. Even Poland was fairly challenging for it. IOTL the fall of Poland was helped by stupid Polish High Command decisions (like evacuating Warsaw early and obeying France/Britain in not mobilizing) and bad luck (late fall rains). France could have done major damage to the September '39 Nazis if it wanted to, with a larger standing army than NG, a less exhausted economy from hastily rearming, and the support of most of the world.
 
The Nazis beating the Soviet Union would depend on:

--no US involvement in the war
--a more logical leader than Hitler (which might butterfly away Barbarossa to begin with)
--fewer catastrophic losses from the BoB and the spring '41 campaigns in the Med

But the Germany of 1939 was nowhere near being able to take on the Soviet Union. Even Poland was fairly challenging for it. IOTL the fall of Poland was helped by stupid Polish High Command decisions (like evacuating Warsaw early and obeying France/Britain in not mobilizing) and bad luck (late fall rains). France could have done major damage to the September '39 Nazis if it wanted to, with a larger standing army than NG, a less exhausted economy from hastily rearming, and the support of most of the world.

That looks pretty close too what I'd say, but I would think that Germany also needs a more robust economy to begin with, and less in the way of feudalism between industrial competitors. In the entire war Germanys economy and logistics where a cluster-fuck compared to the allies, and without a better system the SU still is able to recover and wins in the end. Basically, the important things are to

1. Get a standardized truck, instead of what they had, which was something like 6,000 different models.

2. Have more stockpiles of Ammo, winter clothing, fuel, ect..

3. Have a contingency for when the soviets do recover.

And, also importantly, 4. Treat the people who where initially friendly toward the Germans (Eastern Ukraine mostly) well.

Even then, they would still need just a little luck, and to accomplish those objectives, especially 4, you need a different leader then Hitler, which probably butterflies away Barbarossa as you said.

And agreed about France in 1939.
 
Well, thank goodness the Nazis didn't have their act together. :) Certainly, the fact that they were playing catchup to the other world powers (only six years to come up to speed) in terms of modernizing their military didn't help them, but the Soviet Union, which was less industrialized to begin with and just killed off most of its brightest and most talented leaders, was in worse shape than either Germany or France in 1941 and prior. However, I still say that the single biggest thing that saved the SU from total defeat in the first year of the war was the Nazis having spent so much of their fuel reserves in the BoB and the Med/Balkans campaigns of spring 1941.

I don't think the SU without substantial American help can finish off the Nazis though in any time line. The best-case scenario for them would be a WWI-like stalemate. But Stalin was a little more rational militarily than Hitler when push came to shove. Unlike the fuhrer, he learned from his early losses and adjusted his strategy accordingly. So maybe he could find a way to win.
 
I tend to think that the SU would beat the Nazis in a war if the US is not in, as long as it gets Lend Lease, without it, the result is in the air. With the US, and there is little hope for Germany to win the war.
 
Interesting TL you got there euromellows. I'm interested to know what Stalin and Mussolini's reactions will be. If the Red Army moves in the Poles will have no hope whatsoever. However, it can't have escaped Stalin's notice that the Germans are in dire straits in the west...

Mussolini might very well decide to sit out the whole war altogether, thereby ending up like Franco in OTL. Though I think the Japanese will still end up doing something stupid in Asia. They will still be embargoed by the US because of their actions in China, and their leadership was about as rational as Hitler, i.e. no rationality whatsoever. Of course, a war against the US, the British Empire and an undefeated France would end up as an utter curbstomp, even more so than OTL.
 
Interesting TL you got there euromellows. I'm interested to know what Stalin and Mussolini's reactions will be. If the Red Army moves in the Poles will have no hope whatsoever. However, it can't have escaped Stalin's notice that the Germans are in dire straits in the west...

Mussolini might very well decide to sit out the whole war altogether, thereby ending up like Franco in OTL. Though I think the Japanese will still end up doing something stupid in Asia. They will still be embargoed by the US because of their actions in China, and their leadership was about as rational as Hitler, i.e. no rationality whatsoever. Of course, a war against the US, the British Empire and an undefeated France would end up as an utter curbstomp, even more so than OTL.

Thanks for the comments. Knowing Stalin's intentions is very difficult in TTL. You're right, the success of France in the west has not escaped his notice. I'm not an expert on the MR Pact, but I think it's safe to assume it was signed on the assumption there would be inaction from the west. Hitler's plan was to take Poland and then make peace with the west. I'm still unsure of what Stalin will do... I'm leaning towards a wait and see in Poland. I think the Baltic States are still doomed but finland though I'm not sure.

Re Mussolini I think that's easy. He will remain neutral under these circumstances. He is many things, but most of all he is opportunistic. Under these circumstances even he would realise these are not ideal conditions for a general war. Italy will become isolated diplomatically and become comparable to Franco's Spain. He might try something on in Greece or Yugoslavia but probably not. He'll get away with Albania.

Re Japan. Another hard one. Any rational country would be forced to admit a stalemate in China when sanctions begin to hit (will still happen in TTL just delayed). However as you correctly point out they do not possess much rationality. Any war with the west is going to be even more disastrous in TTL. I'm toying with the idea of Stalin launching a major war with them in compensation for losing influence in east europe. Perhaps another Nomonhom. This may preempt Japan's war with the west and so that is butterflied away.
 
Thanks for the comments. Knowing Stalin's intentions is very difficult in TTL. You're right, the success of France in the west has not escaped his notice. I'm not an expert on the MR Pact, but I think it's safe to assume it was signed on the assumption there would be inaction from the west. Hitler's plan was to take Poland and then make peace with the west. I'm still unsure of what Stalin will do... I'm leaning towards a wait and see in Poland. I think the Baltic States are still doomed but finland though I'm not sure.

Re Mussolini I think that's easy. He will remain neutral under these circumstances. He is many things, but most of all he is opportunistic. Under these circumstances even he would realise these are not ideal conditions for a general war. Italy will become isolated diplomatically and become comparable to Franco's Spain. He might try something on in Greece or Yugoslavia but probably not. He'll get away with Albania.

Re Japan. Another hard one. Any rational country would be forced to admit a stalemate in China when sanctions begin to hit (will still happen in TTL just delayed). However as you correctly point out they do not possess much rationality. Any war with the west is going to be even more disastrous in TTL. I'm toying with the idea of Stalin launching a major war with them in compensation for losing influence in east europe. Perhaps another Nomonhom. This may preempt Japan's war with the west and so that is butterflied away.

Hmmm, so an earlier Manchurian Strategic Offensive Operation (the official name for August Storm) in 1940 or 41 (depending on when Germany has been defeated)? At the time of Pearl Harbour in OTL 80 % of the IJA was tied down in China. A Soviet victory in Manchuria and Korea (and by extension, the rest of China) would effectively destroy the IJA whilst leaving the IJN intact. Japan would only be left with Formosa and the League of Nations mandates. The IJN would keep the Soviets out of the Kuriles, while Sakhalin might go either way. In any case, Japan would definitely not be in any shape to attempt a reconquest of China, let alone taking on the west.

Also, if things go as I suspect they might, this would probably mean a slower process of decolonisation. Here the western empires would not have been driven out of SE Asia by the Japanese, and Liberia would still be the only independent state in Africa with Ethiopia still being an Italian colony. Indian independence at this point was only a matter of time, and World War I already dealt a fatal blow to the European colonial powers, but here you would have a Britain that would not have bled itself white in fighting a long world war, and France would not be burdened with defeat, occupation and letting the Japanese into Indochina.
 
The key issue here is the timing of French mobilization. Historically they started too late. The offensive the French did historically was about the offensive they were capable of at that stage in their process of mobilizing and getting their divisions where they needed to be. The process was:

Step 1: Mobilize--get millions of men to military bases where they are organized into their units and get their equipment. In the French case, most of the active army divisions split into three divisions on mobilization: An active division with on the order of two-thirds of the divisions active personnel plus one-third reserves, a Type A division with maybe twenty-five percent active personnel and the rest reserves, and a B-type division with a small cadre of active division personnel and mostly reservists.

During mobilization, with this massive reorganization most of the French divisions weren't able to do much of anything other than trying to sort out the chaos. They did have some divisions that remained intact to secure the border and do quick reaction, but most of the French army was not in any condition to fight until mobilization was complete.

Step Two: As mobilization completed, they had to get their divisions to the part of the front where they belonged. That all took time, and I believe that the French plan was that they would not be ready for a full-scale offensive until about two weeks after mobilization started.

Bottom line: To get a Saar offensive early enough to help the Poles, either the French have to mobilize earlier or the Poles have to do better in the early fighting.
 
Interesting timeline. Ironicaly at the end of that war the french army coulb be a fully modern and mechanized force and the german would be trying to entrench themselve to slow the allies advance. But Weygand need to go.
 
The key issue here is the timing of French mobilization. Historically they started too late. The offensive the French did historically was about the offensive they were capable of at that stage in their process of mobilizing and getting their divisions where they needed to be. The process was:

Step 1: Mobilize--get millions of men to military bases where they are organized into their units and get their equipment. In the French case, most of the active army divisions split into three divisions on mobilization: An active division with on the order of two-thirds of the divisions active personnel plus one-third reserves, a Type A division with maybe twenty-five percent active personnel and the rest reserves, and a B-type division with a small cadre of active division personnel and mostly reservists.

During mobilization, with this massive reorganization most of the French divisions weren't able to do much of anything other than trying to sort out the chaos. They did have some divisions that remained intact to secure the border and do quick reaction, but most of the French army was not in any condition to fight until mobilization was complete.

Step Two: As mobilization completed, they had to get their divisions to the part of the front where they belonged. That all took time, and I believe that the French plan was that they would not be ready for a full-scale offensive until about two weeks after mobilization started.

Bottom line: To get a Saar offensive early enough to help the Poles, either the French have to mobilize earlier or the Poles have to do better in the early fighting.

The French couldn't be bothered to mobilize jack squat. The only thing lacking on their part was will.

Here we had a nation with a larger and better infantry than the Nazis, a larger and better tank force than the Nazis, a larger and better surface fleet than the Nazis, and almost as good an airforce. They were facing a Nazi Germany that was 100% tied up in Poland and had exactly enough strength to take her out, assuming everything fell into place just right. I don't buy for a minute that France didn't have intelligence indicating just how tenuous Germany's position was at this time.
 
(Continuation Timeline)

September 29: Estonia signs a 10-year Mutual Assistance Pact with the Soviet Union, which allows the Soviets to have 30 000-men military bases in Estonia. Stalin promises to respect Estonian independence. Stalin continues to act cautiously in relation to Poland, however, he is intent on gaining his sphere of influence in accordance with the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.

Premier Reynaud clashes fiercely with General Weygand in an emergency War Council. Weygand continues to feel his authority is challenged. Reynaud is insistent on forcing an offensive and Weygand objects on the grounds that the German army is well entrenched and that any further offensives will risk taking place in Winter. Weygand believes he cannot continue to operate effectively as Chief of Army and threatens to resign (something he often did in OTL when he did not get his way during his time in Vichy). Although his threat is tempting to a frustrated Reynaud, it would be a political disaster due to his recent successes in the Rhineland. Although Reynaud's popularity has increased he is aware of .

War Minister Daladier intervenes and manages to convince Weygand to stay on. An understanding is reached in which Weygand is assured he will not receive his Marshal's Batons should he resign during the current campaign. A compromise is formulated in which elements of General Billotte's plan are adopted alongside the Georges and De Gaulle plan. A major offensive is planned for when the British Expeditionary Force arrives in force. This is not expected to occur until 11 October (in accordance with OTL).

In the meantime the French and British Air Forces attempt to gain air superiority over the strategic industrial regions of the Ruhr. Britain reluctantly agrees to withdraw most of their Home Squadrons from England

The Japanese Imperial Army reaches the outskirts of Changsha. The Chinese National Revolutionary Army prevents the capture of Changsha by cutting off Japanese supply lines.

30 September: The German pocket-battleship Admiral Graf Spee sinks its first merchant ship, the British freighter Clement while off the coast of Pernambuco, Brazil.

1 October: Soviet troops mass on the Latvian border. Latvian air space is violated by the Soviet Air Force. Premier Reynaud sends a personal telegram to Stalin explicitly warning him of any hostile action in Poland.

2 October: Latvia is invited to Moscow to negotiate with Stalin and Molotov. They are threatened by an occupation force if they do not sign a Mutual Assistance Pact with allowance of Soviet military bases.

The Western Hemisphere approves the Declaration of Panama which states belligerent activities should not take place within waters adjacent to the American continent. This declaration will be enforced by the US Navy, which will patrol up to 300 miles.

The German Army launches a major infantry assault in the centre of Warsaw after a massive artillery bombardment weakens Polish positions.

5 October: Latvia signs a 10-year Mutual Assistance Pact with the Soviet Union, which allows the Soviets to have 25 000 men in military bases in Latvia. Stalin promises to respect Latvian independence.

6 October: The remaining Polish resistance in the centre of Warsaw capitulate to the Germans.

Despite the capture of Warsaw there are still many elements of the Polish army successfully defending entrenched positions and Germany's logistics are stretched to the limit. Generaloberst Gerd von Rundstedt, Commander Army Group South, estimates the Polish Army could hold the 'Romanian Bridgehead' for months and notes (without revealing his personal opinion) that a major offensive during winter will cause heavy casualties.

Polish President Ignacy Moscicki speaking from the established 'Romanian Bridgehead' appeals directly to France to press on the offensive.

The Chinese Army defeats the Japanese Army in the Battle of Changsha. This is the first time the Japanese Army has been prevented from capturing a major city since war began in 1937.

8 October: Hitler speaks before the Reichstag declaring that Poland has been smashed and he is prepared to negotiate with Britain and France if they withdraw from the Rhineland. He boasts he is ready to smash their armies to the Atlantic if they refuse his generous offer.

The German resistance gains momentum but it is unclear whether the Allies will offer reasonable terms to Germany. Despite the opposition to Hitler they are German patriots who desire to see a strong Germany and a coup at this point in time might destabilise the German war effort further. The conspirators await a spark.

9 October: French Premier Reynaud declines Hitler's offer of peace and furthermore states that he will not deal with Hitler. He calculates that this will embolden other Nazi leaders to challenge Hitler's leadership. Intelligence at this point in time greatly exaggerates Herman Goering's opposition to the war.

10 October: British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain declines Hitler's offer of peace.

Lithuanians officials meet in Moscow at the invitation of Stalin and Molotov. The officials are incredibly reluctant to agree to any terms, despite assurances from Stalin that they could negotiate the return of the city of Vilnius (Polish) and the return of Memel (German).

11 October: The first British Expeditionary Force completes their deployment in France. It is estimated some 158,000 British troops and roughly 23, 000 vehicles are now available for the upcoming offensive.

12 October: Representatives from Finland meet Stalin and Molotov in Moscow. USSR demands military bases near the Finnish capital Helsinki, as well as an exchange of territory heavily in favour of the Soviet Union. The justification is for the defence of Leningrad due to the current world situation. Stalin makes vague references about returning the territory at a later date when the world situation improves.

SS Officer Adolf Eichmann begins deporting Jews from Austria and Czechoslovakia into Poland.

13 October: The major Anglo-French offensive begins at 0100 with heavy artillery bombardment at numerous points along the river Rhine. After several hours of bombardment General Georges plans goes into effect with the immediate deployment of the combined Anglo-French air forces. The Allied armies have waited for daybreak to properly coordinate the multiple landings as well as their air coverage.

Despite numerous confusion, including several botched landings due to poor coordination and communication, the Anglo-French force is able to land in force at several locations. Since the last failed offensive the German army has more artillery pieces available in the theatre, as well as armoured vehicles. However they are too few in number and spread too thin throughout the front. The armoured brigades are forced to respond to several attack points at once.

In a stroke of bad luck for the offensive the Germans are able to eliminate one of the major planned landing zones. The French 8th Army under the command General Garchery suffers heavy casualties and is unable to properly coordinate a defence. After several hours of horrific casualties he is forced to withdraw his troops and the poorly organised retreat ends in disaster as the 8th Army is forced to abandon much of their equipment.

On the other hand General Jean de Lattre de Tassigny in command of the 14th Infantry Division holds his position with distinction in the North. His ability to adapt to the German attempts to dislodge him earns him the grudging respect of a German officer who is stated to have said it was similar as in the Battle of Verdun.

Despite his success, and several other small successes along the front, for most of the day the Allies have great difficulty in securing a dominant position. Eventually this does change as the more numerous allied artillery is brought to bear on fortified positions. The German luftwaffe work in close contact with the Army and attempt to hammer the established positions. Their ability to do so is severely hampered by effective Allied air cover, but losses are heavy for the British and French Air Forces.

By the end of the night, although the momentum appears to be with the Allies, the outcome is by no means certain.

14 October: After non-stop fighting since the offensive started, General de Tassigny reports they have succeeded in repelling the German counterattacks and securing a fortified position for reinforcements.

British Brigadier Berney-Ficklin commanding the 15th Brigade of the British 5th Infantry Division also reports similar success. The British Expeditionary Force under Lord Gort embarks in this landing point alongside Brigade General Charles De Gaulle who embarks with his armoured division.

All along the front there is heavy fighting as the Germans attempt to prevent any further fortified landing zones.

British battleship HMS Royal Oak is sunk in Scapa Flow harbour by German submarine U-47.

Finland meets with Stalin again. Stalin inform the delegates that "an accident" might happen between Finnish and Soviet troops, if the negotiations last too long.

15 October: The French Army attempt to force a breakout from their positions. The defending Germans have by now learnt where the expected attacks are to come from and desperately organise a counterattack to drive them back across the river. Despite ferocious fighting it is becoming very difficult to dislodge the Allied armies who are continually bringing to bear more and more artillery pieces. The Germans for their part adopt a defence in depth position along the front in an early application of hedgehog tactics.

The German conspirators note that Hitler's gamble has failed and agree to take action to remove him from power.

A/N: More to come later. Wife has once again reminded me that I can't keep staying up late typing out timelines. It amazes me how much time it does take up.
 
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(CONTINUATION TIMELINE)

October 16: Heavy fighting continues across the Rhine front. The French and British Armies slowly advance against heavily entrenched German positions. For their part the Germans are unable to mass for armoured counter attacks and are forced to make the Allied armies bleed dry.

German General Wilhelm Ritter von Leeb, Commander of Army Group C on the western front, privately pledges his support to the conspirators coup. His Army has come under intense attack from the Allied armies and his reports to Berlin indicate his defence is days away from collapsing.

Hitler reportedly falls into depression and displays periods of severe and furious tantrums and quiet resignation.

October 17: Lithuania signs a 15-year Mutual Assistance Pact with the Soviet Union. The Soviets are granted military bases for 20,000 men in Lithuania. In a secret protocol, Vilnius is made Lithuanian territory.

October 20: Pope Pius XII's first encyclical condemns racism and dictatorships.

October 23: The combined Anglo-French army breaks through major defensive positions east of the Rhine. The city of Dusseldorf is captured after moderate level of resistance. Dusseldorf was always horribly exposed to an Allied attack due to it's location on the Rhine.

Brigade General Charles De Gaulle spearheads the advance with his armoured divisions. Disobeying orders from General Headquarters to slow his attack, De Gaulle's armoured divisions advance rapidly and manage to capture several thousand retreating Germans. De Gaulle's armoured divisions take up forward positions that threaten to cut off the important city of Essen from German supply.

Meanwhile the British Expeditionary Force advance northwards from their breakout positions. Their objective is the important is the city of Munster and the surrounding countryside. The British 1st Infantry division and 1st Army Tank Brigade distinguish themselves in combat.

October 25: The German city of Essen surrenders to the advancing Allied army. Although there had been talk of conducting a fierce resistance, Colonel Felix Meyr surrenders the city with minimal bloodshed. He had been stunned by the speed of the French advance and Brigade General De Gaulle's decision is vindicated after this important victory.

Hitler is furious and condemns Meyr's decision. It is discovered Meyr is a devout Catholic and Nazi Officials harass his family and friends in his home village.

Admiral Wilhelm Canaris presents the conspirators with assurances the Allies will treat with a non Nazi Germany more favourably and this emboldens them to take action. He makes it clear that Germany will still be punished, however, Germany has almost certainly lost the war by this stage and the need for peace is paramount.

A coup is planned for that very day but General Franz Halder loses his nerve and cancels the first attempt. This is his second time in two years he loses the nerve at the last minute.

October 30: The British Government releases a report on the number of concentration camps in Germany for Jews and Anti-Nazi's.

November 2: Finland and Soviet Union continue their negotiations over new borders. Finland refuse to give up territory that breaks their defensive line.

The German resistance initiates its planned coup once Head of Army General Staff General Franz Halder gives the signal. Hitler is shot by 'Captain Heinz' after resisting arrest. Much of the senior leadership is arrested in Berlin - including Rudolf Hess, Joseph Goebbels, Heinrich Himmler, Walther Funk and Von Ribbentropp. Crucially Herman Goering, Reinhard Heydrich and Wilhelm Frick evade arrest.

A message is broadcast to known sympathetic Army Commanders of the putsch. The NSDAP is outlawed and all senior and middle level officials are to be placed under arrest. General Ludwig Beck becomes the interim Head of State and Carl Goerdeler becomes acting Chancellor so as to illustrate the Military and Civilian population working together. The majority of the German Army accepts the new orders and accept in a few instances do not resist. The forced arrest of gauleiters becomes particularly messy throughout Germany, as well as sporadic fighting with SS units. It will not be until several days later that the last significant Nazi resistance is crushed.

As the political situation stabilises the new German Government announces its desires for peace with the western government and is willing to discuss terms of surrender. Goerdeler, attempting to get on the front foot, communicates his offers of the return of Polish territory and withdrawal of German troops there, independence restored to Czechslovakia and the return of the sudetenland to her, general disarmament, demilitarisation of the Rhineland, the restoration of global free trade and the removal of protectionist barriers to trade. Implicit in these terms is that Germany would retain Austria and would be free from foreign occupation and able to choose its own government.

The French Cabinet heavily debate these terms. There is jubilation that the war is essentially won, and that France is the victor. There are hawks amongst the Cabinet who wish to continue the war indefinately until Germany is crushed. There is a certain appeal to this idea as France has been at war three times with Germany in the last 70 years and is entitled to address her security concerns.

Despite these ambitions Reynaud distinguishes Germany from Nazi Germany and has no desire to dismember her. In OTL Reynaud was an early supporter for a united states of europe and he genuinely believes that Germany must be given a place. However, he is no fool either and knows that a firm peace is needed to prevent this happening a fourth time to his country.

The British for their part are reasonably well disposed to accept the terms. Chamberlain for one would like to see the war come to an end, and even First Sea Lord Winston Churchill states that to offer them no hope will make them fight like rats. There is every indication that the German resistance will get progressively more difficult and the Allies have already suffered an enormous amount of casualties.

After much debate Reynaud agrees to stall for time on the basis that he needs to consult with his Polish allies. President Moscicki rejects the terms out of hand and pushes for terms more favourable to Poland.

The Allied Governments communicate their desire for peace to the new German Government, however, the terms of any peace treaty will be negotiated only after a German surrender.

Meanwhile a de facto cease fire erupts along the front as the news reaches Army Commanders on both sides. Except in isolated incidents there is very little fighting.
 
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Is the stuff going on in the Baltic OTL? IIRC the Soviet annexation was accomplished using the Trojan horse of "basing rights."

Good to see the Nazis getting slapped.
 
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