WI Frederick the Great, King of Britain?

[Stolengood]

Forgive me if this has been done before, most likely much better, but:


What if Frederick II, OTL King of Prussia, became heir to the British throne? As a grandson of George I, it would only take a few nudges into ATL for this to happen:

• At an early age, his older sister Wilhelmine is beaten by her governess (an OTL occurrence) to the point where she dies from a brain-bleed (the POD) sometime after Frederick's birth.
• In 1707, Prince George's wife Caroline falls ill with smallpox, which George also catches from staying by her side (an OTL occurrence); however, not only do they both pass it to their newborn son Frederick (not the Prussian one), but all three die from it (another POD).
• This leaves King George I's only daughter, Sophia Dorothea of Hanover, to become Princess of Wales and, eventually (should George and Sophia both die on schedule), Queen of the United Kingdom.
• Whether the stress of rule hastens her death, or whether it comes as it did OTL in 1757, either way means the ascension of her (ITTL) oldest surviving child, Frederick, to the throne of Britain.

With that said and done... what do you think would happen? Quite curious to hear your responses.

 

[Will Kürlich Kerl]

Forgive me if this has been done before, most likely much better, but:

What if Frederick II, OTL King of Prussia, became heir to the British throne? As a grandson of George I, it would only take a few nudges into ATL for this to happen:

• At an early age, his older sister Wilhelmine is beaten by her governess (an OTL occurrence) to the point where she dies from a brain-bleed (the POD) sometime after Frederick's birth.
• In 1707, Prince George's wife Caroline falls ill will smallpox, which George also catches from staying by her side (an OTL occurrence); however, not only do they both pass it to their newborn son Frederick (not the Prussian one), but all three die from it (another POD).
• This leaves King George I's only daughter, Sophia Dorothea of Hanover, to become Princess of Wales and, eventually (should George and Sophia both die on schedule), Queen of the United Kingdom.
• Whether the stress of rule hastens her death, or whether it comes as it did OTL in 1757, either way means the ascension of her (ITTL) oldest surviving child, Frederick, to the throne of Britain.

With that said and done... what do you think would happen? Quite curious to hear your responses.

If King George I and his son Frederick are both dead, to whom will the Duchy of Hanover pass to?

 

[Stolengood]

If King George I and his son Frederick are both dead, to whom will the Duchy of Hanover pass to?

Wouldn't it be in personal union with the British crown, at this point? The whole reason Wilhelmine died young ITTL was to bypass the differing laws of primogeniture between the U.K. and Prussia/Hanover; if Wilmhelmine lives, she gets the crown of the U.K., while Frederick gets both the duchy and what he got IOTL. No uncles of theirs had children, and so it would eventually automatically go to Frederick ITTL either way.

If I'm remembering correctly, the Duchy of Hanover stayed in personal union with the British crown in OTL until the time of Victoria, at which point the two bloodline laws of the seperate crowns diverged.

 

[eliphas8]

Well I'd expect there to be a war of British succession since Hannover, Britain, and Prussia entering into a personal union effectively destroys the balance of power in Germany. I'm not sure who the anti-frederickians would probably push the Stuarts as their claimant to the British throne alternative to Frederick.

 

[Stolengood]

Well I'd expect there to be a war of British succession since Hannover, Britain, and Prussia entering into a personal union effectively destroys the balance of power in Germany. I'm not sure who the anti-frederickians would probably push the Stuarts as their claimant to the British throne alternative to Frederick.

Would it really get so bloody, though? I'm more interested in how people would react to Queen Sophia and King Frederick's ascensions, and what they might do to Britain ITTL...

IOTL, there was a possiblity when Frederick was young of being married into the British royal family; although it came to nought, I don't see why TTL's ascension would be any more violent.

 

[eliphas8]

Would it really get so bloody, though? I'm more interested in how people would react to Queen Sophia and King Frederick's ascensions, and what they might do to Britain ITTL...

Well I'd think this is pretty important in how people would react. And yeah, I'd say it's likely because it puts roughly half of Germany under British influence in some form or another and indisputably makes them hegemons of Northern Germany. I mean the war could happen with Frederick winning. Although I doubt the British would be very happy with him long term. He was an absolutist through and through despite his enlightened ideals and both will probably chafe against one another (actually part of why I think the anti-frederickians are more likely to win, Frederick would likely by opposed even by on of his kingdom after awhile.). Whether or not his Absolutist ambitions are successful is another matter but it's an interesting idea none the less.

 

[Stolengood]

Whether or not his Absolutist ambitions are successful is another matter but it's an interesting idea none the less.

Why, thank you. I'm surprised no one thought of it earlier; even IOTL, with disease being as it was back then, this sort of situation ended up happening one way or another -- it just didn't happen with regards to Frederick IOTL. Here, it does.

Never mind the fact that this means that both Voltaire (as he would probably follow Frederick to the U.K., the two being so close) and enlightened despotism would come to Britain; what differences might that produce, do you think?

 

[eliphas8]

Why, thank you. I'm surprised no one thought of it earlier; even IOTL, with disease being as it was back then, this sort of situation ended up happening one way or another -- it just didn't happen with regards to Frederick IOTL. Here, it does.

Never mind the fact that this means that both Voltaire (as he would probably follow Frederick to the U.K., the two being so close) and enlightened despotism would come to Britain; what differences might that produce, do you think?

A British revolution at some point down the line after Frederick goes, I doubt moving to the UK would make him any more willing to actually have children and the POD doesn't make Frederick William II anymore competent than IOTL.

 

[Stolengood]

A British revolution at some point down the line after Frederick goes, I doubt moving to the UK would make him any more willing to actually have children and the POD doesn't make Frederick William II anymore competent than IOTL.

Fair enough. Just found it an interesting idea.

 

[eliphas8]

Fair enough. Just found it an interesting idea.

It's an interesting idea, I just can't see it lasting long term without someone like Fritz keeping it there.

 

[Codae]

Wouldn't it be in personal union with the British crown, at this point? The whole reason Wilhelmine died young ITTL was to bypass the differing laws of primogeniture between the U.K. and Prussia/Hanover; if Wilmhelmine lives, she gets the crown of the U.K.,

Wilhelmine is behind Frederick in the succession: royal primogeniture has always been male-favored in Britain. See, for instance, George III's accession despite the existence of his elder sister Augusta.

EDIT: And, if I'm reading the family trees right, Hanover goes to the Duke of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel by Salic Law, in particular this guy.

 

[eliphas8]

Wilhelmine is behind Frederick in the succession: royal primogeniture has always been male-favored in Britain. See, for instance, George III's accession despite the existence of his elder sister Augusta.

It may be but Parliaments pick is the ultimate say and it's entirely likely they would give up Hannover for the sake of not having an absolutist like Fritz on the throne.

 

[Codae]

It may be but Parliaments pick is the ultimate say and it's entirely likely they would give up Hannover for the sake of not having an absolutist like Fritz on the throne.

Parliament doesn't have a choice between losing Hanover and getting a scary Prussian--it has a choice between getting a scary Prussian and keeping Hanover by throwing out the usual principles of succession and instead elevating the King's third cousin.

By the way, I misread the timing of various events when constructing the above post. The new Hanoverian elector is probably Anthony Ulrich's son, Augustus William.

 

[katchen]

So Frederick would lose Great Britain but gain Hannover. Definitely a net win for Frederick and one that gives Prussia a leg up on unifying Northern Germany. Dosen't Hannover border on Prussia's Brandenberg and Westphalian territories?
Now who would Parliament pick for Great Britain's King or Queen?

 

[Stolengood]

Wilhelmine is behind Frederick in the succession: royal primogeniture has always been male-favored in Britain.

But then, how to explain the divergence with Victoria becoming Queen and Ernest Augustus becoming King of Hanover? Salic law didn't apply in Britain, unless I'm mistaken... and I may be.

As for Hanover... they can't "give it up". The throne must, by the Act of Settlement 1701, pass to a Protestant descendant of Electress Sophia of Hanover who had not married a Roman Catholic. As Frederick is a Protestant, and as he is the best direct option in this instance, being the eldest and closest living Protestant great-grandson of Sophia... well, it passes to him, with his mother Sophia Dorothea hopefully acting as a moderating buffer in between the reigns of George and Frederick.

 

[Will Kürlich Kerl]

Wilhelmine is behind Frederick in the succession: royal primogeniture has always been male-favored in Britain. See, for instance, George III's accession despite the existence of his elder sister Augusta.

Yep, it has always been the case until only three weeks ago.

EDIT: And, if I'm reading the family trees right, Hanover goes to the Duke of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel by Salic Law, in particular this guy.

Thanks.

 

[Codae]

So Frederick would lose Great Britain but gain Hannover. Definitely a net win for Frederick and one that gives Prussia a leg up on unifying Northern Germany. Dosen't Hannover border on Prussia's Brandenberg and Westphalian territories?
Now who would Parliament pick for Great Britain's King or Queen?

No! Frederick has no* claim to Hanover!

What this POD proposes is the extinction in the male line of the Calenberg branch of the House of Welf, which rules Britain and Hanover. With them gone, the only other Welfs around are the Wolfenbüttel branch, but Frederick the Great is a descendant of the Calenbergs through a female line. Since Britain allows female inheritance, Frederick can inherit Britain; since Hanover doesn't, the reasonable heirs are the Wolfenbüttels.

EDIT: *A slight exaggeration, I guess, but I don't think the Hanoverians would want to be ruled by the Queen of Britain or the Crown Prince of Prussia when they have a grown man of the previous dynasty on hand without giant foreign possessions. Nor would any of the neighboring powers be interested in a three-way personal union when there's a good reason to split off the Electorate.

 

[Codae]

Yep, it has always been the case until only three weeks ago.

Wow, I missed that! Thankee!

 

[Timmy811]

No! Frederick has no claim to Hanover!

What this POD proposes is the extinction in the male line of the Calenberg branch of the House of Welf, which rules Britain and Hanover. With them gone, the only other Welfs around are the Wolfenbüttel branch, but Frederick the Great is a descendant of the Calenbergs through a female line. Since Britain allows female inheritance, Frederick can inherit Britain; since Hanover doesn't, the reasonable heirs are the Wolfenbüttels.

Augustus William and his younger brother Louis Rudolph are both old, have no issue and little power, that last factor being by far the most important factor. If Fredrick wants to (he would), he can launch a war of succession over the issue. (Such wars were endemic in the 18th century) .

He would be King of Prussia in 1740, well before his ascension to the British throne, and not constrained by the British parliament.

 

[Stolengood]

Wow, I missed that! Thankee!

Yeah... isn't that weird of Britain?


But seriously: In this case, what would the outcome be? The Hanoverian line would look like this:

• George (1714-1727)
• Sophia (1727-1757)

...followed by, presumably, what would be dubbed the first (and, possibly, last) British monarch of House Hohenzollern:

• Frederick (1757-1786)

What are the results of this? Earth-shattering? Or merely a blip on the Continental radar? Or someplace, perhaps, in the middle? You decide.