WI: France retains Alsace-Lorraine

Bismarck never wanted Alsace-Lorraine, before or during the Franco-Prussian War. Emperor Wilhelm I and the other generals overruled him. So, what would happen if France retains Alsace-Lorraine after the Franco-Prussian War?
 
France will still have to pay a large amount of reparations. Though they mirrored the high reparations Napoleon I once had imposed on Prussia.

That won't be popular and relations would be sour for a while, but in the longer run without such a constant reminder, like the territorial lost, some reconciliation will be easier. Might not be at friendly terms right away, probably more of a casual business like nature.

Alternatively the German Empire might acquire some French colonies instead.
At the time the French Colonial Empire consisted of among (a few) others: Algeria, Ivory Coast, Senegal, Djibouti, Mayotte, Comoros, Reunion, Indochina, French India, French Polynesia, New Caledonia and the Crozet Islands.
IMHO Algeria seems unlikely as does French India, but Indochina might be a possibility, potentially combined with another or a few other colonies like for instance Ivory Coast.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
Well, Franco-German relations would be much less hostile, for sure. But I doubt they'd start a new era of love and brotherhood. It would also have interesting cultural consequences for late-19th Century France.

If a bully knocks you down and then kicks the crap out of you, that's one kind of humiliation. If a bully knocks you down and then walks away with a grin on his face, as though you're not worth bothering with further, that creates a different kind of humiliation.
 

RavenMM

Banned
France will still have to pay a large amount of reparations. Though they mirrored the high reparations Napoleon I once had imposed on Prussia.

That won't be popular and relations would be sour for a while, but in the longer run without such a constant reminder, like the territorial lost, some reconciliation will be easier. Might not be at friendly terms right away, probably more of a casual business like nature.

Alternatively the German Empire might acquire some French colonies instead.
At the time the French Colonial Empire consisted of among (a few) others: Algeria, Ivory Coast, Senegal, Djibouti, Mayotte, Comoros, Reunion, Indochina, French India, French Polynesia, New Caledonia and the Crozet Islands.
IMHO Algeria seems unlikely as does French India, but Indochina might be a possibility, potentially combined with another or a few other colonies like for instance Ivory Coast.


I think Bismarck would be even more against colonies than against aquiring Elsass-Lothringen.
I think without the new border, there would be a kind of marginot line on the german side, to discourage further french aggression (remember, the war was started by france, and napoleon is not forgotten...). The German Empire will look out for a stronger ally against france, not just A-H. So Anglo-German alliance could be possible. If there ever is another bigger war (a la OTL WWI) started by france, I can see E-L taken by germany, as most people (~90%) are german speaking.
 
I think Bismarck would be even more against colonies than against aquiring Elsass-Lothringen.
I think without the new border, there would be a kind of marginot line on the german side, to discourage further french aggression (remember, the war was started by france, and napoleon is not forgotten...)

Officially, yes, but of course the Prussian government tried provoked France into declaring war (the Ems dispatch). And Napoleon III was deposed during the course of the war.

I think that without any territorial changes, French attitudes towards Germany would have softened considerably, especially given that France underwent a regime change in 1870. The reparations would still cause some hostility, but after they were paid, people would forget about the conflict.
 
With or without EL France will be pissed off. Le "Grande Nation", the wannabe Hegemon since five hundered years, and than Germans defetead them. The realtionship between French and Germans was often arrogance from the French side and than the Germans curbstomp them and proclaim their unified Empire in Versailles. So it EL really didnt matter, the defeat alone was what angered France.
 

RavenMM

Banned
Officially, yes, but of course the Prussian government tried provoked France into declaring war (the Ems dispatch). And Napoleon III was deposed during the course of the war.


Yes, but also France made her resentment against Prussia very clear even before the war. Further, France issued an ultimatum against prussia, without any real reason, just trying to intervene into two different countrys politics. Bismarck was just able to play his opponents like a fiddle :)
And France should have known, that if you wanna hang with the big dogs...:p

Does anybody know the chances for a demilitarized border?
 
It is worth mentioning that after Napoleon III was deposed, the first offer that the new French government sent to Prussia basically suggested "no annexations or indemnitites," but French colonies didn't count as annexations (if the fact that the offer included potential cession of French colonies was any hint). Obviously not something like Algeria, but Indochina was floated. The problem was that the offer was only made because they were "losable" and Prussia had no interest in them because of the fact that they were functionally worthless offers. That said, France's new government would probably acquiesce to moderate indemnities without needing to be totally defeated as OTL, and so long as they accepted the main German war goal (acceptance of a united Germany), Prussia would have accomplished her objective. The rest, literally was, politicking.
 
Bismarck never wanted Alsace-Lorraine, before or during the Franco-Prussian War. Emperor Wilhelm I and the other generals overruled him. So, what would happen if France retains Alsace-Lorraine after the Franco-Prussian War?

Is that actually true or is it a myth he fostered. I've read that he held various views, he understood it would antagonise the French but was moved by popular opinion, he was after all a bit of an opportunist.
 
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