WI France didn't suffer demographic crisis in in XIX and early XX century.

Rudi Maxer · Mar 14, 2011

In 1800 France was largest country in western Europe with 29 million people. Germany had 22 million, Italy 17 million and UK 10,5 million. By 1914 French and British populations were equal at 40 million while Germany had 56 million people. By 1940, France was surpassed by Germany, UK and Italy. Only after the war stagnation in french growth has reverted and as for now, France has 65 million people, compared to 82 million for Germnay, 62 for UK and 60 for Italy.

So, what if french population growth kept up through 1800 - 1940 with that of Germany, with number of French people reaching about 75 million by 1914 and 95 million by 1940?

I am aware that rate of population growth is tied to country's history and conditions. For example, was losses are blamed for minimal french growth between 1914 and 1940. However Germany suffered large casualties in Great War as well, yet continued to grow afterwards. So low french growth rate seems to be rather effect of their society.

kasumigenx · Mar 14, 2011

In 1800 France was largest country in western Europe with 29 million people. Germany had 22 million, Italy 17 million and UK 10,5 million. By 1914 French and British populations were equal at 40 million while Germany had 56 million people. By 1940, France was surpassed by Germany, UK and Italy. Only after the war stagnation in french growth has reverted and as for now, France has 65 million people, compared to 82 million for Germnay, 62 for UK and 60 for Italy.

So, what if french population growth kept up through 1800 - 1940 with that of Germany, with number of French people reaching about 75 million by 1914 and 95 million by 1940?

I am aware that rate of population growth is tied to country's history and conditions. For example, was losses are blamed for minimal french growth between 1914 and 1940. However Germany suffered large casualties in Great War as well, yet continued to grow afterwards. So low french growth rate seems to be rather effect of their society.

Europe's population is becoming smaller because of Materialism like in other European countries and Japan as well but if France had a larger population Jacobinism will not work.

Alex Richards · Mar 15, 2011

Part of the issue is thus: France had kept growing throughout the period 1500-1800, whereas Germany had suffered the 30 Years war, Italy various wars, and Britain the Civil War and a lot of emigration (plus the potatoe would really boost the population). A lot of it was simply Germany catching up to France during a period of Peace.

Rudi Maxer · Mar 15, 2011

Post-war population boom may last for decade or two, not over century. and France has been most populous western country even before 1500.

Lord Douglas · Mar 15, 2011

Wasn't one of the problems the abolition of primogeniture? Peasants and landowners had to split their land between their sons equally, so peasants had fewer children so as not to divide their property into small, uneconomical holdings. I am by no means an expert but I stumbled across this explanation in a book with a few chapters on 1930s France.

Finn · Mar 16, 2011

I seem to recall someone on here saying French birth rates were even lower than they seem, and a lot of the population maintenance has been Eastern European Catholics coming in and being thoroughly Francified.

Then again, it could have been one of those Polish historical revisionists trying to wank Poland all over everything.

Nugax · Mar 16, 2011

The situation is worse than it appears, as during the 1800-WWII period you have the additional 9 million British who emmigrated and the 7 million Germans who did likewise, whilst at the same time France experienced a 1.5 million net immigration into the country.

The causes for the differing demographic result are very murky, but blaming it all on the societal factors of the weak frenchmen is so very 19th century of the OP

.

One of the major reasons was improving agricultural technology allowed increased relative productivity elsewhere in northern europe, whilst the very fertile northern France was already at top utilisation, and heavy industrialisation allowed food import to some places as well. Neither of those geographic factors is likely to change.

90 million Frenchmen is a bit silly, without industrial strength to employ them, you're just likely to see any huge increase in French fertility rates head off to pastures new.

archaeogeek · Mar 16, 2011

Lord Douglas said:
Wasn't one of the problems the abolition of primogeniture? Peasants and landowners had to split their land between their sons equally, so peasants had fewer children so as not to divide their property into small, uneconomical holdings. I am by no means an expert but I stumbled across this explanation in a book with a few chapters on 1930s France.

Napoleon III was the one to abolish primogeniture and France was already growing at roughly the same rate by the 18th century.

Monty Burns · Mar 16, 2011

Lord Douglas said:
Wasn't one of the problems the abolition of primogeniture? Peasants and landowners had to split their land between their sons equally, so peasants had fewer children so as not to divide their property into small, uneconomical holdings. I am by no means an expert but I stumbled across this explanation in a book with a few chapters on 1930s France.

In large parts of southern Germany, the lands were always partitioned, it£s called "Realteilung". That led to fields which were extremely narrow - sometimes less than a meter. The effect was pauperization and large scale emmigration. Neither happened in France.

Intosh · Mar 17, 2011

Finn said:
I seem to recall someone on here saying French birth rates were even lower than they seem, and a lot of the population maintenance has been Eastern European Catholics coming in and being thoroughly Francified.

Then again, it could have been one of those Polish historical revisionists trying to wank Poland all over everything.

Poles came to France in the 1920's, most of them to work in the coal mines.

Small polish emigration happened in Revolution and Napoleonic times and after 1830-1831 but it was only a political emigration of people who fought in Poland against the partitions (1791-1794) or who fought in polish troops in service of Napoleon or the Grand Duchy of Warsaw (1794-1815).

The Code Civil of Napoleon Bonaparte, he was not yet Emperor, gave every children an equal part of the inheritance of their parents. A small part can be give to one child in particular or to somebody else

This is called the legitime, or forced share, a part of the decedent's estate from which he cannot disinherit his children, this part is divided equally.

Timmy811 · Mar 17, 2011

Nugax said:
90 million Frenchmen is a bit silly, without industrial strength to employ them, you're just likely to see any huge increase in French fertility rates head off to pastures new.

Algeria's right next store.

Petete123123 · Mar 17, 2011

Maybe there would be mass French Emigration like the Italian one, or France would push to get another colony apart from Algeria where people can settle.