WI: France and the UK declare war on the Soviet Union in 1939?

The 1939 Soviet invasion of Poland was a Soviet military operation that started without a formal declaration of war on 17 September 1939, immediately after the undeclared war between the Soviet Union and the Empire of Japan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Poland

Lets move up the time table a bit and the undeclared war between Japan and the USSR ends earlier and Stalin decides to invade Poland on the same day as Hitler does. France and the UK decide to declare war on both of them.

After Poland and other parts of Eastern Europe are taken by the Red Army Stalin decides to take the Middle East from the UK while Germany is busy with France and he invades Iraq and Iran.
 
Stalin decides to invade Poland on the same day as Hitler does. France and the UK decide to declare war on both of them.

I wonder what would make Stalin decide that piling onto Poland immediately would be better then letting the Germans weaken it before graciously invading. Perhaps he might do this in the hope of intimidating a Franco-British duo more aggressive then IOTL? (IMHO taking this sort of risk seems subtly un-Stalin-like to me.)
 
I wonder what would make Stalin decide that piling onto Poland immediately would be better then letting the Germans weaken it before graciously invading. Perhaps he might do this in the hope of intimidating a Franco-British duo more aggressive then IOTL? IMHO taking this sort of risk seems subtly un-Stalin-like to me.

Waiting for Germany to weaken the Polish Army with their attack is more like something Stalin would do yes. But, its far from inconceivable he might have invaded at the same time, especially if both Germany and the USSR agreed to a date ahead of time to invade Poland.
 
Waiting for Germany to weaken the Polish Army with their attack is more like something Stalin would do yes. But, its far from inconceivable he might have invaded at the same time, especially if both Germany and the USSR agreed to a date ahead of time to invade Poland.

It seems to me that Stalin's modus operandi was to allow himself the maximum freedom of action. OTL's pact with Germany didn't actually require Stalin to invade anywhere, much less at any specific time. And since Hitler was the one who badly wanted to conclude the pact, he wouldn't be in much of a position to make demands.

But in principle I feel that it's not impossible that something could have caused the USSR to strike immediately.
 
The Baku bombing is given a go, and the Soviets end up in a slogging match in Persia and the Middle East while the Germans attempt a SeaLion with an overstretched ego due to having the full brunt of the Luftwaffe above Britain, and the German Army have nothing to practice on.
 

Deleted member 1487

If the Soviets enter into a war with the West while technically allied to Germany, does the Soviet Union then support Germany more and avoid aggressive action in Eastern Europe? I think so if the Brits bomb Baku. That means Germany gets a bigger flood of goods from the Soviets and perhaps some Soviet bombers/fighters operating against Britain during the Battle of Britain and the Blitz, just like the Italians.
The Soviets had bombers capable of hitting Britain from German bases.
This type was used against Berlin in August 1941:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petlyakov_Pe-8
General characteristics
Crew: Eleven
Length: 23.2 m (76 ft ¼ in)
Wingspan: 39.13 m (128 ft 4 in)
Height: 6.20 m (20 ft 4 in)
Wing area: 188.66 m² (2,030.7 ft²)
Empty weight: 18,571 kg (40,941 lb)
Loaded weight: 27,000 kg (59,400 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 35,000 kg (77,000 lb)
Powerplant: 4 × Mikulin AM-35A liquid-cooled V12 engine, 999 kW (1,340 hp) each
Performance
Maximum speed: 443 km/h (275.2 mph)
Range: 3,700 km (2,299 mi)
Service ceiling: 9,300 m (30,504 ft)
Rate of climb: 5.9 m/s (1,154 ft/min)
Wing loading: 143 kg/m² (29 lb/ft²)
Power/mass: 140 W/kg (0.2 hp/lb)
Armament
Guns:
2 x 20-millimeter (0.79 in) ShVAK cannons (dorsal and tail turrets)
2 x 12.7-millimeter (0.50 in) UBT machine guns (engine nacelles)
2 x 7.62-millimeter (0.300 in) ShKAS machine guns (nose turret)
Bombs: Up to 5,000 kg (11,000 lb)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yermolayev_Yer-2#Specifications_.28Yer-2.2FACh-30B.29
General characteristics
Crew: 4
Length: 16.42 m (53 ft 10½ in)
Wingspan: 23 m (75 ft 5½ in)
Height: 4.82 m (15 ft 10 in)
Wing area: 79 m2 (850 ft2)
Empty weight: 10,455 kg (23,049 lb)
Gross weight: 18,580 kg (40,961 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × Charomskiy ACh-30B V12 diesel engines, 1,118 kW (1,500 hp) each each
Performance
Maximum speed: 420 km/h (261 mph)
Range: 5,500 km (3,418 miles)
Service ceiling: 7,200 m (23,620 ft)
Armament
1 x 12.7 mm UBT machine-gun in nose flexible mount.
1 x 12.7 mm UBT machine-gun in ventral flexible mount.
1 x 20 mm ShVAK cannon in a TUM-5 dorsal turret.
Up to 5,000 kg (11,023 lb) of bombs in the internal bomb-bay.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-4
General characteristics
Crew: 4 (pilot, navigator, gunner/wireless-operator, rear gunner)
Length: 14.80 m (48 ft 7 in)
Wingspan: 21.44 m (70 ft 4 in)
Height: 4.10 m (13 ft 5 in)
Wing area: 66.7 m2 (718 sq ft)
Empty weight: 5,800 kg (12,787 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 11,300 kg (24,912 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × Tumansky M-88B 9-cyl. air-cooled radial piston engines, 820 kW (1,100 hp) each
Performance
Maximum speed: 430 km/h (267 mph; 232 kn) at 6,700 m (21,982 ft)
Range: 3,800 km (2,361 mi; 2,052 nmi)
Service ceiling: 9,700 m (31,824 ft)
Armament
Guns: * 2 × 7.62 mm ShKAS machine guns.
1 × 12.7 mm UBT machine gun
Rockets: 2 × BETAB-750DS 305 mm rockets.[4]
Missiles: 1 × 940 kg (2,072 lb) 45-36-AN or 45-36-AV torpedo.
Bombs: Up to 2,500 kg (5,500 lb) of bombs or mines.

All of these would have been quite a boon to the German effort to bomb Britain.
 
More Soviet bombers wouldn't have helped the Luftwaffe terribly. I foresee terrible tactical and strategic coordination problems between the OKH and Stavka that make any Soviet participation a dog's breakfast that satisifies nobody but the WAllies.
We won't get into the logistical nightmare inherent to German-Soviet cooperation- good news for Germany- plenty of raw material. Bad news is, it takes industries scaled up to make use of such resources and infrastructure to distibute the products efficiently that Germany didn't have and wouldn't for five years if they went full-bore to do so.

The LW needed escort fighters to clear the RAF from intercepting them and the Soviet Air Force had nothing with the legs to seriously challenge Fighter Command. Could the Soviets have developed drop tanks and other stuff to increase range and superchargers to help high-altitude fighter performance?
Sure by 1943 or so, but not in time to really affect BoB.

ironically, Soviet participation would have solved a lot of the half-heartedness the French leadership and brass had about opposing the Germans and made it clear they needed to go on the offensive to keep the Gemans and Soviets off-balance. With British help, they could have prevented the loss of the Low Countries and turned the Ardennes into the graveyard of blitzkrieg.

With Bomber Command having bases in France, the Ruhr gets blasted to bits and may be under WAllied occupation. I don't see the Soviets willing to volunteer hundreds of thousands of troops for a meatgrinder in W Europe.
Stalin would laugh at Germany's misfortunes backstab him in Czechoslovakia Romania and Hungary, set up puppet states as a defensive buffer, declare neutrality and tend to his own garden.
 
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