WI: First World Mexico?

The point is that I choose a place without a large Hispanic population and demonstrate how there’s no Hispanic influence, meaning that in the core American culture there isn’t a lot of Hispanic influence. Not a lot of Europeans in Africa but one cannot deny the tremendous influence European culture has on Africa (religion, language, etc.). So yeah if you bring a bunch of people from one place and put them in another place, they will influence the region they live in, but that’s very different than influencing the country. Not a lot of Italians in America during 1787 but one cannot deny the influence Rome has had on America’s founding or the renaissance with Robert Bellarmine and Thomas Jefferson.
Is there really such a thing as a "core" American culture? Is Hawaii any less American than Texas? Is Alaska any less American than Minnesota? Are New York and California any less American than Arkansas and Louisiana? What do you mean by "core" American culture.

Edit: considering how the stereotypical American is a cowboy, that's a lot of Hispanic influence in American culture as cowboys have their origins in Hispanic culture. This makes sense as "The origins of the cowboy tradition come from Spain, beginning with the hacienda system of medieval Spain. This style of cattle ranching spread throughout much of the Iberian peninsula and later, was imported to the Americas"
 
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Lusitania

Donor
Is there really such a thing as a "core" American culture? Is Hawaii any less American than Texas? Is Alaska any less American than Minnesota? Are New York and California any less American than Arkansas and Louisiana? What do you mean by "core" American culture.

Edit: considering how the stereotypical American is a cowboy, that's a lot of Hispanic influence in American culture as cowboys have their origins in Hispanic culture. This makes sense as "The origins of the cowboy tradition come from Spain, beginning with the hacienda system of medieval Spain. This style of cattle ranching spread throughout much of the Iberian peninsula and later, was imported to the Americas"
This is why in 1998 I saw an Andean Indian band touring in Europe playing around the beach bars dressed as Americans Indians. When I commented on the contrast he asked where I was from and he smiled at my answer because he said majority of Europeans only know one type of native north American and that is the American Indian. So I believe all Americans are cowboys or gangsters.
 
FDR dies in 1941, Wallace takes over. With a red old world and the americas as the US's economic zone to trade with Mexico ends up at say an italian/spanish level.
 
US immigration restrictions in the 1920s prevent large scale immigration from Mexico. All of that human capital remains in Mexico.

Mexico then gets Marshall Plan help out of fears it could fall to communism.

Also US missionaries convert a lot of Mexico to Protestantism and permanently cripple the power of the Catholic Church, thus Mexico avoids a lot of the nasty religious fighting it had in the 20th Century.
 
Is there really such a thing as a "core" American culture? Is Hawaii any less American than Texas? Is Alaska any less American than Minnesota? Are New York and California any less American than Arkansas and Louisiana? What do you mean by "core" American culture.

Edit: considering how the stereotypical American is a cowboy, that's a lot of Hispanic influence in American culture as cowboys have their origins in Hispanic culture. This makes sense as "The origins of the cowboy tradition come from Spain, beginning with the hacienda system of medieval Spain. This style of cattle ranching spread throughout much of the Iberian peninsula and later, was imported to the Americas"

To be fair, however, the concepts of ranching and cattle runs had already been present in the US before contact with Hispanic culture (Florida crackers) and a lot of it developed in England and Scotland.

And the core American culture refers to the culture that emanated from the 13 Colonies and spread westwards. Of course it was influenced by coming into contact with other cultures and by immigrant groups, but that core culture (it's especially more pronounced in law, politics, and business) still predominates.

You wouldn't deny that a core Russian culture exists because people who live in Siberia may not have much in common with those in St. Petersburg.
 
Not to be argumentative, but if you're going off of New England as representative of Hispanic influence on American society, I think you're using an inaccurate and small sample size. Vermont isn't exactly a big landing point for immigrant communities (except maybe a few Canadians I guess).

While I do agree cultural influence does flow more heavily North-South than vice versa in U.S./Mexican terms, the latter (and Latin American elements in general) stretches pretty far. Even in the 90s I could get passable tortillas or chorizo in not-D.C. Virginia, Chicago, New Orleans, Philadelphia, and Atlanta have fairly large and growing Mexican communities, the Southwest as an obvious example as previously mentioned, etc. And that's leaving other large nationalities out for the moment.

New England is origin and precursor to default American society. There is a reason why we learn a lot about Plymouth Rock and not so much about Santa Fe. When people think of the beginning of America, they think of Pilgrims, not conquistadors.
 
To be fair, however, the concepts of ranching and cattle runs had already been present in the US before contact with Hispanic culture (Florida crackers) and a lot of it developed in England and Scotland.

And the core American culture refers to the culture that emanated from the 13 Colonies and spread westwards. Of course it was influenced by coming into contact with other cultures and by immigrant groups, but that core culture (it's especially more pronounced in law, politics, and business) still predominates.

You wouldn't deny that a core Russian culture exists because people who live in Siberia may not have much in common with those in St. Petersburg.
Florida crackers are distinct from cowboys though. Crackers uses whips, dogs, and smaller horses to here cattle, while cowboys used large breeds of horses in addition to lassos. When Reagan was emphasizing his cowboyness it was that cowboy tradition from California, and therefore Spain , that he was emphasizing, not the one from Britain.

In addition, while Russia's culture is focused on its western or European section, Americans are more evenly spread across the nation and have larger cultural conflicts than what would be seen in Russia.

Like, a New Yorker and a Texan would most likely have different views on race, religion, sex, politics, recreation , etc. Yet , I don't think anyone can say one is more American than the other just because one happens to be live in a state that is older than the other. I mean Texas may not be one of the 13 colonies , but it's image is a very important part of American identity.
 

elkarlo

Banned
“Spain isn’t sending their best. They’re bringing drugs, they’re bringing crime, they’re rapists, and some I assume are good people”

- Juan Trúmp speaking at a press conference. He is an oligarch in the mining and oil sectors and a far-right Mexican nationalist.
LOL, but at that time, with Mexico being so massive and in many areas basically empty. They'd take anyone, esp white Europeans.
 
Is there really such a thing as a "core" American culture? Is Hawaii any less American than Texas? Is Alaska any less American than Minnesota? Are New York and California any less American than Arkansas and Louisiana? What do you mean by "core" American culture.

Edit: considering how the stereotypical American is a cowboy, that's a lot of Hispanic influence in American culture as cowboys have their origins in Hispanic culture. This makes sense as "The origins of the cowboy tradition come from Spain, beginning with the hacienda system of medieval Spain. This style of cattle ranching spread throughout much of the Iberian peninsula and later, was imported to the Americas"


Yes there is. America has regions and so in some ways you could split it up broadly into Yankee and Dixie and many more regions but while America is very diverse so is Italy (and Mexico for that matter). So when we say Italian culture or Mexican culture and not bat an eye, we can say American culture as well.


There are Polynesian Hawaiians who want independence. Make no mistake, it was the settlement of Americans in Hawaii that fully integrated Hawaii into the United States.

You make a good point though that within nations there are so many varying regions that it is hard to say what exactly fits into the culture. There’s a reason why culture wars occur.
 

Deleted member 67076

Cardenas winning the presidency in 1988 could potentially be a good turning point.

If you want to go further back, finding some way to keep Francisco Madero not getting deposed and the Mexican Revolution becoming a decade long, multi sided and brutal civil war is likely your best bet since it avoids the destruction of so much of Mexico's nascent rails and industry (which yes, believe it or not Mexico was slowly shifting to industrialize very late in the Porfiriato). In any case, I think Madero being a bit of a smarter politician can help out. Keeping Pascual Orozco happy via the minister of war position is one way, alongside not alienating Emiliano Zapata is another (appointing a different governor of Morelos will do here. Maybe have Zapata as governor of Morelos?).

Basically, ease Mexico's transition into a stable democracy that enacts land reform and continues to industrialize.
 
LOL, but at that time, with Mexico being so massive and in many areas basically empty. They'd take anyone, esp white Europeans.

Maybe. Mexican culture is incredibly nativist. They've been very hostile to the recent caravans moving through their country and Mexico has a had a long period of Chinese exclusion.

Even white immigrants weren't spared. Mormon and Mennonite immigrants have been looked on with suspicion.
 
Would the US put up with a competent nation strategically positioned to threaten the mouth of the Mississippi*? The Empire shielded Canada for most of its history. Who is going to protect Mexico?


*Water bourne transport was a very big deal. In this case the key to the US heartland.

Well, there's thousands of miles of desert and mountains between the core of Mexican Power (Mexico Valley - Veracruz) and the United States. It's very difficult for Mexico to get a large number of troops to the Mexican North, let alone get those troops into the US.

Meanwhile Mexico doesn't really have that many great military-grade ports. Veracruz, Tampico, and Campeche are the only three I can think of on the Gulf. Contrast that with nearby US ports in Panama City, San Juan, Tampa, Mobile, Galveston, Corpus Christi, New Orleans, Key West, etc. The US has far far more ship making capacity than the US.
 
So why are there more Taco Bells than Fish and Clam Chowder stands? Traditional Yankee Culture is on the outs.


Called wanting to try exotic food. Kind of a liberal stereotype actually.


Look at the way Vermont society is structured in terms of honesty, corruption, and progressivism. There’s a reason lots of good, honest and hardworking Mexicans leave for the states. Setting up restaurants is not a cultural invasion, and I’ve talked to some of these restaurant owners of various ethnic groups and they’ve said they wanted to integrate into American society. They want their heriatefe respected but they want to integrate into America (the whole they left behind a bad place and don’t want to bring it with them) and want to contribute to America. So it isn’t a sign of yankee culture declining (yes Gavin Mccines, immigrants are not invading America).

P.S. Not saying you hold Gavin’s views, just mocking him. Honestly, as a centrist who at times leans right, Gavin, Shapiro and Crowder are so annoying!!!! And also intellectually dishonest, arrogant to the core, you name it.
 
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elkarlo

Banned
Maybe. Mexican culture is incredibly nativist. They've been very hostile to the recent caravans moving through their country and Mexico has a had a long period of Chinese exclusion.

Even white immigrants weren't spared. Mormon and Mennonite immigrants have been looked on with suspicion.
But they did have an influx of Southern European Immigrants who blended in fairly well. Helped that they were Catholic and Mediterranean in culture.
But yes I k of many Mexicans are can be hateful and distrustful. Which is more common world wide than many would like to think
 
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