WI First Balkan War: Greek Fleet defeated

Germaniac

Donor
I hope I can get some insight on this.

Im having trouble finding good sources on the thinking of the Greeks prior to the Balkan War. So my question is, if the Ottomans (for whatever reason) defeat the Greek Fleet and sink the Averof during the First Balkan War would that be enough for the Greeks to drop out of the war?

Lets say it happens before the fall of Salonika to the Greek army.

If anyone has any source material on the Greek side during the time that would be great too.

I'm sure the Serbs and Bulgarians won't end the war though.
 
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Germaniac

Donor
I lean more towards yes, as the morale among the Greeks would plummet. Without seizing Yanya fortress or Salonika AND the pride of the nations fleet being sunk the Greeks (and the rest of the Balkan League) now face the prospect of the Ottomans bringing their Asian forces to Rumelia.
 
The ottomans had a a couple of Pre Dreadnoughts that were in terrible condition. If they were in better condition the Ottomans would have a superior available force.

So it's not out of the picture that the Greeks could have had naval success.
 

Germaniac

Donor
The ottomans had a a couple of Pre Dreadnoughts that were in terrible condition. If they were in better condition the Ottomans would have a superior available force.

So it's not out of the picture that the Greeks could have had naval success.

Well in OTL the Greeks were successful and were able to block Ottoman reinforcements and supplies from coming by sea to the Western Army.

The Ottomans were clearly inferior to the Greek Averof armored cruiser. The predreadnoughts were simply outclassed and their low speeds were a huge factor in that. But my question was more along the lines of could the Greek war effort continue if they lost naval supremacy in the aegean.
 
Well in OTL the Greeks were successful and were able to block Ottoman reinforcements and supplies from coming by sea to the Western Army.

The Ottomans were clearly inferior to the Greek Averof armored cruiser. The predreadnoughts were simply outclassed and their low speeds were a huge factor in that. But my question was more along the lines of could the Greek war effort continue if they lost naval supremacy in the aegean.
My point was that I don't know details of what Greece would have done. Just naval details. The Ottoman ships could have beat the Greek ships but they were run down and not looked after properly and there was a massive advantage for the Greek fleet.
 
The Averoff was out of ammunition before the war. Defeating the Greeks on the Sea early in the war is a HUGE help. The Ottomans can land more troops. With a bit of luck, surround some of the Bulgarian Forces in Eastern Thrace. And if Bulgaria gets defeated, the Ottomans can march to Macedonia to face the Serb and Greek Army.
 
The Italian Orlando yard offered Averoff to the Turks first but they were too slow and the Greeks took her. The Bulgarians paid credit to the Greek Navy in that control of the Aegean was critical to success in the Balkan war and that was single handedly due to the Averoff. If a single ship affected the course of the 20th century, it’s Averoff.
 
The Averoff was out of ammunition before the war. Defeating the Greeks on the Sea early in the war is a HUGE help. The Ottomans can land more troops. With a bit of luck, surround some of the Bulgarian Forces in Eastern Thrace. And if Bulgaria gets defeated, the Ottomans can march to Macedonia to face the Serb and Greek Army.
The Greek Navy never prevented the Ottomans from transferring troops through the Marmara Sea and the Bosphorus. In fact this is the only realistic way Ottoman troops could reach the front in Eastern Thrace anyway.
 
If the Greeks lose naval superiority, then the Ottomans would be able to bombard Athens and possibly land troops from Palestine/Asia Minor directly in Greece. Even if landings become impossible, the Ottomans would be able to bring up reinforcements of about 400,000 men albeit poorly equipped.

Not only are the Greeks dropping out of the war, the Serbians and Bulgarians will be suing for peace as well

The Greek Navy never prevented the Ottomans from transferring troops through the Marmara Sea and the Bosphorus. In fact this is the only realistic way Ottoman troops could reach the front in Eastern Thrace anyway.

The Greeks were keeping the Ottomans from bringing up reinforcements from Asia Minor/Palestine. Greek participation is what makes the Balkan War possible

As for POD: That requires one before the Balkan War. In 1911, the Greeks are just too far advanced for the Ottomans. Any larger Ottoman fleet has butterflies for the Italo-Ottoman War and its unlikely to survive that conflict. The best would be Greece being forced to give up its fleet after the 1897 War
 

Germaniac

Donor
If the Greeks lose naval superiority, then the Ottomans would be able to bombard Athens and possibly land troops from Palestine/Asia Minor directly in Greece. Even if landings become impossible, the Ottomans would be able to bring up reinforcements of about 400,000 men albeit poorly equipped.

Not only are the Greeks dropping out of the war, the Serbians and Bulgarians will be suing for peace as well



The Greeks were keeping the Ottomans from bringing up reinforcements from Asia Minor/Palestine. Greek participation is what makes the Balkan War possible

As for POD: That requires one before the Balkan War. In 1911, the Greeks are just too far advanced for the Ottomans. Any larger Ottoman fleet has butterflies for the Italo-Ottoman War and its unlikely to survive that conflict. The best would be Greece being forced to give up its fleet after the 1897 War

Interesting, i don't believe Bulgaria is going to drop out of the war until its defeated on the field or totally tied up in Macedonia and Thrace that they cant stop a Romanian attack.

From what i've read the Greek tied alot of their prestige and morale to their fleet. So a loss will be devastating, but would it really effect serbia and bulgaria (apart from ottoman reinforcements) and their immediate war effort?
 
Interesting, i don't believe Bulgaria is going to drop out of the war until its defeated on the field or totally tied up in Macedonia and Thrace that they cant stop a Romanian attack.

From what i've read the Greek tied alot of their prestige and morale to their fleet. So a loss will be devastating, but would it really effect serbia and bulgaria (apart from ottoman reinforcements) and their immediate war effort?

Greek participation was a prerequisite for the Serbo-Bulgarian attack. Without it, they never would have started the war. The Russians were furious when Greece was included in the Balkan league because that made it focused on the Turks instead of the Austro-Romanians like the Russians wanted.

If the Greek fleet is defeated, Greece is out and the Balkan allies are in trouble. Reinforced from Asia Minor, the Turks are going to start doing much better. If the Turks still can't beat the Serbs and Bulgarians, they will either try for a separate peace with Serbia and Montenegro or entice Romania into the war

The Ottomans will find a lot of help from the Russians on this. Bulgaria threatening the straits is the last thing the Russians want
 
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