WI: Enterprise had season four quality, in season 1?

[phx1138]

Well I'm glad they didn't do that, that would've been awful. The first female captain is a young incompetent promoted because of nepotism. Reeeeal progressive, that would've been.

She'd have been a lieutenant, so not exactly promoted past her ability. If she got the captaincy after the senior staff was killed, that isn't uncommon; it happened to Kirk in "TOS" & happened not infrequently in OTL's RN.

Question is, how does *Janeway beat out Chakotay, who has the skills, & as much charisma?

 

[Mike Stearns]

Question is, how does *Janeway beat out Chakotay, who has the skills, & as much charisma?

Because at some point prior to the start of Voyager Chakotay had resigned his commission and joined the Maquis.

 

[Heavy]

I've never watched Enterprise the whole way through and despite resolving to do so every so often, I can never seem to work up enough enthusiasmfor the undertaking and consequently can't be bothered. I've seen episodes here and there, of course, but they weren't enough to convince me to watch the series (maybe it was just bad luck).

Although I've heard that season four was superior, I understand that it's still the season where the folks in charge devoted a two-part episode to explaining why Klingons in the TNG era had forehead ridges while those who appeared in TOS did not. I'm not sure why they felt obliged to do this, because I think Worf's line in "Trials and Tribble-ations" ("We do not discuss it without outsiders") was really all that needed to be said on the subject.

That point aside, when I read the basic premise for Enterprise (ie. the founding of the Federation) my assumption was that it would be something along the lines ofDS9 or even Babylon 5; I'm pretty sure it had been previously established that one pivotal event in the early days of the Federation was the Romulan War so I would've expected that some kind of cold war with the Romulans that eventually gets hot would've figured heavily in the series. However, based on what I've read, this didn't happen, and judging from some interviews Coto's given, it wasn't likely to become a factor until maybe the middle of season five (granted, the Dominion War only started in the fifth year of DS9 but it had been building since the end of season two).

I'll also observe that much of the criticism I've read of Enterprise is that it leaned too heavily on the previous series despite being a prequel, so Archer's crew faced off against the Borg and the Ferengi, both races that the Federation had never heard of or seen, respectively, in TNG. Considering that Voyager was content to retread TNG, I suppose this speaks to a broader sense of creative ennui on the part of the showrunners, but that's just idle speculation on my part.

 

[Coalition]

I'll also observe that much of the criticism I've read of Enterprise is that it leaned too heavily on the previous series despite being a prequel, so Archer's crew faced off against the Borg and the Ferengi, both races that the Federation had never heard of or seen, respectively, in TNG. Considering that Voyager was content to retread TNG, I suppose this speaks to a broader sense of creative ennui on the part of the showrunners, but that's just idle speculation on my part.

The Borg could have been done a lot better than the episode. You'd turn them back into the nightmare they were from "Q Who?", and this nightmare only comes from pieces of Borg technology, rather than a full Borg ship.

I.e.:
1) Archeology crew at the Borg Sphere crash site. Lots of stuff is damaged, pieces, etc. They are using a fusion powered 747 or Antonov cargo plane that takes in air at the front, heats it up via fusion power, and spits it out the back. Lots of thrust, endurance, but only works in atmosphere.
2) Borg tech gets reactivated and assimilates some of the archeologists
3) Earth Space Command detects the aircraft leaving atmosphere. Attempts to contact are ignored, so local interceptors are scrambled
4) Borg modified airplane goes to warp. Earth Fleet notified, and due to the ship's speed and bearing, only the Enterprise will be in position to intercept.
5) Enterprise tries to intercept. Archer is not worried by scans of a weapon on board, as it only has enough power for 3 shots. He tells Engineering to use their warp field to bring the captured plane out of warp.
6) Borg airplane scans Enterprise, and fires the 3 shots. The shots have feedback effect along the polarized armor, feeding back into the engine core, causing Enterprise to drop out of warp. Borg drones beam aboard to grab a hydrogen fuel cannister to replace the fuel expended going at warp. The Borg ship does a very basic hail (so instead of the mass of voices, we only have 4-5)
7) Enterprise repairs the damage and gets back underway, but much better prepared.
8) Borg airplane intercepts a freighter, to gather fuel, spare parts, and extra crew. It also takes the opportunity to better reshape the craft to travel in warp.
9) Enterprise comes alongside, and begins sending people over to the Borg ship to scan it. Several cases are done where Trip mentions that a certain item is critical to the power systems, then that item powers down and is removed (Borg upgrades removing lower-tech items). Have a few comments about the Borg are increasing speed each time.
10) Archer decides to plant explosives to force the Borg ship to slow down, to talk to the Enterprise so they can meet the new race. This is a hostile act, and the Borg respond in kind. Several red shirts and a main character are killed. Two Borg drones are destroyed, and two red shirts are taken on board to replace them.
11) Enterprise and the Borg ship break off from each other, both badly damaged, the Borg ship actually in worse shape. However, the Borg ship is repairing itself faster than Enterprise, and heading back towards the freighter. Enterprise has to go after th eBorg ship again, eventually defeating it, and destroying all the fragments, then towing the remaining debris into a local star.

Key things:
1) The Borg are dangerous! Even a 22nd century airplane with a fusion reactor was able to attack and nearly destroy the Enterprise (antimatter powered with nuclear weaponry), thanks to Borg technology.
2) At least two main characters die. This reinforces #1.
3) The Borg tech has to remain hushed up, so nobody else tries to reverse-engineer it. This is why Ent-D never even knows about it (better if the records are stored at a secondary location that is destroyed in the Earth Romulan War).

I want the Borg episode to be where the viewers genuinely worry if the Enterprise crew is going to live, let alone win. Everyone watching this will know that "Here be Dragons" and they travel in cube-shaped ships.

 

[Andrew T]

She'd have been a lieutenant, so not exactly promoted past her ability. If she got the captaincy after the senior staff was killed, that isn't uncommon; it happened to Kirk in "TOS" & happened not infrequently in OTL's RN.

Question is, how does *Janeway beat out Chakotay, who has the skills, & as much charisma?

Remember that Tuvok was a Federation plant within the Maquis organization, so presumably he can intervene as popular sentiment is starting to crystallize around Chakotay instead of Janeway.

That might be an interesting way to have made a "darker" Star Trek series -- with a captain who lacked majority support from her crew, backed up by a second-in-command who's effectively acting as the head of Voyager's Secret Police. How far he's willing to go is up to you.

"But Andrew," some of you are saying, "didn't you just say that one of the key elements to making a show 'Star Trek' is a fundamentally optimistic view of humanity? How does having an incompetent captain imposing a (self-serving) Federation chain-of-command through force possibly fit in with that worldview?"

Good question, imaginary guy. My off-the-cuff view is that the whole first season would be about Janeway and the crew's struggles to recover their humanity despite their desperate situation. Janeway and Tuvok would have to come to the realization that they were wrong, and that even though they're cut off from the Federation, they still have the moral obligation to uphold the noblest and best of the Federation's ideals.

One more thought: have you ever considered that the initial setup for Voyager -- a single ship, alone in an uncharted quadrant of the galaxy with no way to get home that is vastly more powerful than anything else in the area -- is very much the same premise as Island in the Sea of Time or 1632?

It seems to me that you would have had a very interesting show if the crews of Voyager had followed that path: "okay, there's no way we're getting home, let's not tilt at windmills and let's start a new Federation here in the Delta quadrant." Heck, I'd watch that now.

 

[Mike Stearns]

It seems to me that you would have had a very interesting show if the crews of Voyager had followed that path: "okay, there's no way we're getting home, let's not tilt at windmills and let's start a new Federation here in the Delta quadrant." Heck, I'd watch that now.

That's an idea that was never explored, and should have been. What happens when you introduce the ethos and values of the Federation in a place where there is no Federation.

 

[hopper2cool]

There are times when it felt like there was some good writing for the Delta Quadrant. The Vidiians disease and the power vacuum that it left could explain how the Kazons became more or less the most powerful group in their area.
But much like the Federation/Marquis divide making the Delta Quadrant or more accurately the area where Voyager hangs out the first 3 seasons would have taken a little bit of work and consistency.

 

[Andrew T]

I'll be honest with you: I watched Voyager pretty regularly, and there were a good many episodes that I liked quite a bit. That being said, even the relatively good episodes of Voyager struck me as sort of B+ grade fan-fiction in the sense that the ideas always outpaced the execution.

The concept of "two hostile crews forced to cooperate on a ship stranded impossibly far from home?" Terrific. Execution? Lousy. The concept of "one massive technological asset, cut off from all lines of supply, trying to navigate through hostile waters?" Same deal. The idea of a solitary Borg, isolated from the collective, trying to rediscover what it means to be human? Brilliant, if done properly. And so on.

And basically that was the case for, well, pretty much everything Voyager did. I pretty much always felt like I was watching plot notes being acted out on screen rather than a finished script, sort of like when George H.W. Bush said "message: I care" during a press conference.

 

[eliphas8]

I'll be honest with you: I watched Voyager pretty regularly, and there were a good many episodes that I liked quite a bit. That being said, even the relatively good episodes of Voyager struck me as sort of B+ grade fan-fiction in the sense that the ideas always outpaced the execution.

The concept of "two hostile crews forced to cooperate on a ship stranded impossibly far from home?" Terrific. Execution? Lousy. The concept of "one massive technological asset, cut off from all lines of supply, trying to navigate through hostile waters?" Same deal. The idea of a solitary Borg, isolated from the collective, trying to rediscover what it means to be human? Brilliant, if done properly. And so on.

And basically that was the case for, well, pretty much everything Voyager did. I pretty much always felt like I was watching plot notes being acted out on screen rather than a finished script, sort of like when George H.W. Bush said "message: I care" during a press conference.

It's fairly sad when seven of nine is arguably the best they pulled off any of their high concept ideas. (The only competition being between her and the doctor)

 

[Heavy]

I'll be honest with you: I watched Voyager pretty regularly, and there were a good many episodes that I liked quite a bit. That being said, even the relatively good episodes of Voyager struck me as sort of B+ grade fan-fiction in the sense that the ideas always outpaced the execution.

The concept of "two hostile crews forced to cooperate on a ship stranded impossibly far from home?" Terrific. Execution? Lousy. The concept of "one massive technological asset, cut off from all lines of supply, trying to navigate through hostile waters?" Same deal. The idea of a solitary Borg, isolated from the collective, trying to rediscover what it means to be human? Brilliant, if done properly. And so on.

Aye, when you think about it, VOY had the potential to be an even darker show than DS9, because it places a solitary ship isolated in hostile territory with few prospects of refuel or resupply, manned by a hodge-podge crew cobbled together from two groups who should by all accounts hate each other.

That might have been interesting, but I think it was the sort of thing Piller, Behr or Moore (hell, it would've been awesome if they'd waited until DS9 was winding down to start work on VOY and finagled the input of JMS) than Berman and Braga, who seemed more interested in revisiting TNG.

And basically that was the case for, well, pretty much everything Voyager did. I pretty much always felt like I was watching plot notes being acted out on screen rather than a finished script, sort of like when George H.W. Bush said "message: I care" during a press conference.

I'm reminded of Kate Mulgrew's admission that she played Janeway like she was mentally ill, because that's how she came across in the scripts from week to week; her character seemed to oscillate depending on what the story demanded and as a consequence she came across as a trifle schizophrenic.

 

[Dayton Kitchens]

According to the producers themselves when Voyager began, they had exactly ZERO interest in having "two hostile crews" and spending time and effort on integrating them.

Likewise Brannon Braga said involving both Voyager and Enterprise that the "viewers want to see cool stuff".

So there was never going to be any effort to dwell on the lack of supplies and support in Voyager or on what should've been the lack of ultra advanced technology on Enterprise.

In short, both Voyager and Enterprise wanted to basically be "The Next Next Generation". And that is what the studio wanted because TNG had been far and away the most successful Star Trek series.

 

[Mike Stearns]

I'll be honest with you: I watched Voyager pretty regularly, and there were a good many episodes that I liked quite a bit. That being said, even the relatively good episodes of Voyager struck me as sort of B+ grade fan-fiction in the sense that the ideas always outpaced the execution.

I would definitely agree with that. There are some great episodes. Scorpion, The Killing Game, Equinox and particularly Year of Hell immediately come to mind, but those all seem like they came from a much better TV show. Seasons 3/4 of Enterprise, SGU and especially Battlestar were all the show that Voyager was trying to be and never quite got there.

 

[TimPhillips]

It seems to me that you would have had a very interesting show if the crews of Voyager had followed that path: "okay, there's no way we're getting home, let's not tilt at windmills and let's start a new Federation here in the Delta quadrant." Heck, I'd watch that now.

Broadly speaking....that is the plot of the Andromeda series.....just with the ship "lost" in time instead of space.

Tim

 

[vultan]

Broadly speaking....that is the plot of the Andromeda series.....just with the ship "lost" in time instead of space.

Tim

Oh, Andromeda... such wasted potential...

 

[Ming777]

I think the lesson learned from Star Trek when it comes to Franchises is that sometimes piling on series after series is quite detrimental to the franchise's health.

Certainly, I think could have been better off if they had a few years in between them and DS9. Voyager might have been better if it developed after DS9 but then again, they at least had a way to tie in a bit with DS9 in its pilot episode. Enterprise was the first series since TNG without any direct links or crossovers with a previous Star Trek series.

Other things I would have liked:

-Instead of a stupid song, perhaps use an instrumental version of the melody in Star Trek: First Contact.
-Focus a bit more on Earth pulling itself together. That would likely mean parts would take place earlier than 2151, but it would have been for the best to show Earth figuring out how to pull itself together.
-No temporal cold war. Holy crud, that was a PITA. At most, allude to the mess left by First Contact, but seriously, its Star Trek, not Doctor Who. The casts are not Time Lords, this isn't the Time War, and just cut the wibbly wobbly stuff out. Like many fan redos of Enterprise, just replace the Suliban and Future Guy with Romulans.

-Make Archer some other nationality. Personally, it seemed that the better series usually had someone who was either not American or Caucasian. Any male American Caucasian is bound to draw parallels to Kirk.
Afterall, Picard was supposedly French (though played by a Yorkshireman), Sisko was Black (in Canada, "Black" has less negative connotations than in the States).

-Less fanservice with T'Pol. I get they wanted a repeat of Seven of Nine, but it certainly wasn't a positive addition to the story. Maybe a few hints here and there, make T'Pol a bit more mysterious, but conflicted... Anyways, there are numerous ways to have utilized Jolene Blalock better...
-Expand more on Mayweather's background. He was the most experienced spacefarer of the Bunch. More focus on his history, and having to work with many crewmates with less experience in space travel.

 

[Jack Hawksmoor]

As for what difference a theme song can make mute the left video and watch it.

 

[Mike Stearns]

As for what difference a theme song can make mute the left video and watch it.

Yeah. Much better. More heroic and adventurous. The thing that is actually kind of sad about the Enterprise main theme is that its not an original song. Faith of the Heart was the closing title track for Patch Adams. I mean if the show runners are too lazy to hire a composer to write proper theme music for the flagship series for the studio's new network, what does that say about the attitudes of the writers and the crew?

 

[pompejus]

As for what difference a theme song can make mute the left video and watch it.

I read once (on tvtropes) that this was originaly the intro music but was replaced for some obscure reason.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8vslSWlsEg

It is a lot better (although I still prefer all the other intro themes).

Anyway, as this threat turned into How would you change enterprise hoping it would be better, I'll post with my proposed changes.

First I would change the starting date for enterprise from 2151 to 2154. This might seem a trivial change, but there is a reason for it. the Federation was founded in 2161. If you assume a Star Trek series is usualy 7 years. You can have the founding of the Federation in the final episode, which seems like a good ending. As is obvious from this the theme for the series would be the founding of the Federation and not the first steps of humanity in deep space. For such a series you realy need to set the series earlier in for example 2100-2110 (first contact was in 2063 and 50 years after first contact and 50 years before joining a interstellar/interspecial Federation seem a more reasonable timeframe for such a show).

Next i would change the setting drastically. As I said the major theme would be the founding of the Federation. If you form a single nation with a group of people, it seems reasonable that you already know them for a while and relatively well. So earth already knows and have extensive contacts with not only the Vulcans, but also the Andorians and Tellerites. The relationship between these species is not openly hostile (they will form a single nation in 7 years after all), but there are of course differences in opinion. Part of the first three seasons will be the Enterprise trying to ease possible rising tensions between these species.

Other important storylines of the first couple of seasons will be first contact with a couple of major star trek species (like Bolians, Betazoid, perhaps Orions, Nausicans or those gold dwarves). There will be no appearance of Borg, Dominion, Ferengi or any other species that were contacted first in next gen era Star Trek (or TOS era for that matter). Other major storylines could be the Enterprise helping with setting up new Space Colonies for Earth. But a major plotline would be the Klingons. First episode of the series First Contact with the Klingons which ends up disasterous. This leads to major conflicts with the Klingons, but never outright war.

Those are the first couple of seasons. Then around season 4 the Romulans turn up and the Erth-Romulan war starts. The Romulans are behind any tension that was rising between Earth, Vulcans, Andorians and Tellerites. So they must form a united front against the Romulans. Part of these seasons are Easrth fighting the Romulans and losing. The other species are also bothered by the Romulans and they slowly start to realise they must form an alliance. All this ends in a victory for the coalition and the four species deciding to form a federation.

the crew of the Enterprise will be different. My major complaint was that the crew was too American. Earth is earth, not just America. TOS, TNG and DS9 were able to form a rather international crew, so Enterprise can do that too. The captain can be an American for all i care, but the rest of his crew (with possibly one exception or so) are from all over the world. Furthermore, it doesn't make sense to have a Vulcan aboard that is a full part of the crew, so he or she will be merely an observer, not the second in command. At a later stage an Andorian and Tellerite observer will appear (although perhaps just as regulars, not as a main character).

So those are my ideas.

 

[unclepatrick]

I would definitely agree with that. There are some great episodes. Scorpion, The Killing Game, Equinox and particularly Year of Hell immediately come to mind, but those all seem like they came from a much better TV show. Seasons 3/4 of Enterprise, SGU and especially Battlestar were all the show that Voyager was trying to be and never quite got there.

Year from Hell was a good story that failed to be a great episode do to the reset at the end and no one remembering anything.
Agree that both SGU and Battlestar were closer to the goal of what Voyager wanted to be but never attempted to get there.

 

[Andrew T]

Year from Hell was a good story that failed to be a great episode do to the reset at the end and no one remembering anything.

I don't think "hitting the reset button" as a trope necessarily diminishes the quality of a story; after all, "Yesterday's Enterprise" (TNG) is on just about everyone's shortlist of great episodes.

The problem is that Voyager hit the reset button so frequently throughout its run that "Year of Hell" was diminished by the (sub-standard) company it kept. That's not entirely fair to the episodes themselves.