WI England Wins The Wars of Scottish Independence

What if England won the Wars of Scottish Independence? Maybe Edward I wins at Stirling, or Edward II at Bannockburn or maybe Edward Balliol defeats David II. Scotland is at best a vassal state for the English and at worst a second Wales. How could this come about? Wht would be the subsequent effects? What would an earlier Britain(read:über-England) be like? What if?

PS:poD after the death of Margaret of Norway.
 
So lets assume that Longshanks does really hammer the scots. His first step would be to build the sort of castles that he did in Wales. He would then install English nobles as Dukes and Earls over various Scottish lands.

His (or Edward II) next step is to impose English common law into Scotland turning Scotland into another English county.

It would remove the character of the Scots and be a detriment to the later Empire as the Scots where better educated than their English cousins and naturally filled posts in running the empire that Northumbrians didn't.

On the other hand it would mean that later Kings didn't have to worry about an enemy to the North and could concentrate on fighting the French!
 
So lets assume that Longshanks does really hammer the scots. His first step would be to build the sort of castles that he did in Wales. He would then install English nobles as Dukes and Earls over various Scottish lands.

The question arises - where is Longshanks getting the money to build that? Building as he did in Wales was beyond his means - not all those castles were even finished. A project of that sort in Scotland seems impossible even if Scotland is subdued enough to do it.

It would remove the character of the Scots and be a detriment to the later Empire as the Scots where better educated than their English cousins and naturally filled posts in running the empire that Northumbrians didn't.

That was hardly a consequence of Scottish character, though. Establish universities in the north (including OTL Scotland) and you get the same results.
 
After the victory at Dunbar, King Edward overwhelmed the Scots completely, took many of their nobles into captivity, stripped their King of his titles and regalia before sending him off to exile, then he forced the Scottish nobles to pay homage to them as their leige and took all the symbols of Scottish monarch back with him to England.

What prevented him from affirming his control over Scotland was, actually, his conquest of Wales. He'd spent so much warring against the Welsh and building his castles there that he didn't have enough money left to build similarly impressive castles in Scotland and tighten his grip in the North. To say nothing of his attempts to raise funds for a Crusade, or the betrayal of his cousin, King Philip IV of France, that led to war between the two nation.

Money was in short supply, and money was what Edward needed to completely affirm his mastery of Scotland.
 
After the victory at Dunbar, King Edward overwhelmed the Scots completely, took many of their nobles into captivity, stripped their King of his titles and regalia before sending him off to exile, then he forced the Scottish nobles to pay homage to them as their leige and took all the symbols of Scottish monarch back with him to England.

What prevented him from affirming his control over Scotland was, actually, his conquest of Wales. He'd spent so much warring against the Welsh and building his castles there that he didn't have enough money left to build similarly impressive castles in Scotland and tighten his grip in the North. To say nothing of his attempts to raise funds for a Crusade, or the betrayal of his cousin, King Philip IV of France, that led to war between the two nation.

Money was in short supply, and money was what Edward needed to completely affirm his mastery of Scotland.


So could more of the resources in Wales be redirected to Scotland? Would that be enough or no? Also, could the funds for the crusade not be used in a more realistic endeavor, like completing the Scottish campaigns?
 
To get England to win something called the 'Wars of Scottish Independence', Scotland would have to be fighting to join England. England wins and says 'ha, you lose, youve got to go be independent'. ... ;)
 
So could more of the resources in Wales be redirected to Scotland? Would that be enough or no? Also, could the funds for the crusade not be used in a more realistic endeavor, like completing the Scottish campaigns?

I think the problem is that Edward was - at the time of planning those grand castles in Wales - not thinking about whether or not he should "save money for Scotland".

Not sure about the would-be crusade funds, but . . .

And honestly, building on the scale Edward built in Wales in Scotland would be a staggering expense even if you avoided problems there. I'm not sure he'd manage it completely.
 
To get England to win something called the 'Wars of Scottish Independence', Scotland would have to be fighting to join England. England wins and says 'ha, you lose, youve got to go be independent'. ... ;)

BOO! You're lucky I don't flag you!:mad:

Edward I could subdue Scotland and a more competent successor(s) could build castles there.
 
I think the problem is that Edward was - at the time of planning those grand castles in Wales - not thinking about whether or not he should "save money for Scotland".

Not sure about the would-be crusade funds, but . . .

And honestly, building on the scale Edward built in Wales in Scotland would be a staggering expense even if you avoided problems there. I'm not sure he'd manage it completely.

Yeah thats similar to what I was thinking as well. The only other possibility would be sizing Scottish estates and trying to use their own resources to pay for the castles. IDK if that work. Out of curiosity, what was the final goal of Edward I regarding Scotland? To make it a vassal state or to assume the Scottish throne himself? I was always unsure about it.
 
Yeah thats similar to what I was thinking as well. The only other possibility would be sizing Scottish estates and trying to use their own resources to pay for the castles. IDK if that work. Out of curiosity, what was the final goal of Edward I regarding Scotland? To make it a vassal state or to assume the Scottish throne himself? I was always unsure about it.

Seizing Scottish estates wouldn't even begin to cover the costs.

Judging by what he did after his first campaign (where Scotland is referred to as "the land of", not "the realm of"), just absorb it into England.

But I think given his druthers he'd rather have a Scots king as his vassal and let the Scots handle themselves - that's what he did with Balliol, and that seems to have been a good arrangement as far as Longshanks was concerned.

Pericles: The problem is managing to subdue Scotland without the firm presence those castles mean. That's why they were built in Wales - not because there was any need for such massive fortification for its own sake but as a mark of unremovable English presence.
 
Yeah thats similar to what I was thinking as well. The only other possibility would be sizing Scottish estates and trying to use their own resources to pay for the castles. IDK if that work. Out of curiosity, what was the final goal of Edward I regarding Scotland? To make it a vassal state or to assume the Scottish throne himself? I was always unsure about it.

It was to make Scotland a vassal state. A succession of English Kings believed Scotland was a vassal state of England anyway, and believed this to have been established when King Malcolm III of Scots and paid homage to William the Conquerer. King Edward was attempting to assert the rights that he and most of his fellow English lords believed to have been his inherantly by bringing the Scots to heel.
 
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