WI England Takes Over France?

[NapoleonXIV]

WI the British had won the Hundred Years War decisively, killing the entire French royalty and even supplanting a majority of their nobility.

How would Europe develop differently if England and France were essentially one country under the English King from this point on?

 

[Lord Insane]

WI the British had won the Hundred Years War decisively, killing the entire French royalty and even supplanting a majority of their nobility.

How would Europe develop differently if England and France were essentially one country under the English King from this point on?

It ends up with one country under a French king after a while, of course.
I doubt they would supplant a majority of the nobles.

 

[Susano]

WI the British had won the Hundred Years War decisively, killing the entire French royalty and even supplanting a majority of their nobility.

How would Europe develop differently if England and France were essentially one country under the English King from this point on?

Then France wouldve taken over England. France was seen as the more senior kingdom, and it certainly was richer, larger and more popolous. The Kings of France and England (and even if not at first, youd eventually get that order) would sit in France, and the nobility would become thoroughly francified - and if its the same nobility on the mainland and the island as you (kinda unrealistically) suggest, then that means also the English nobility would be francified.

 

[PaleHorseRiding]

This could get really interesting it would make a new language and Europe would eventually fall under their domination and France would never develop its anti trade thinking which caused it to lose to england in the end.

would they even have spread around the world or concentrated on Europe

 

[mattw101]

Looks like it's pretty lucky that Henry V died so young then! (From an English point of view, anyway.)

 

[Gonzaga]

Looks like it's pretty lucky that Henry V died so young then! (From an English point of view, anyway.)

Or it seems that Joan of Arc was the savior of England after all.

 

[Thande]

I agree that for the early Normans and Plantagenets (certainly Richard Coeur de Lion, John and the Edwards) then 'English France' would swiftly have become 'French England'.

But I'm not so sure when it comes to Henry V. By his time, the English national identity had somewhat reasserted itself (or rather a new one had arisen, with the Normans being absorbed into the Anglo-Saxons) to the extent that he was even able to rouse his army by saying that they were defending the English language. A contrast to the earlier kings who didn't even speak English themselves. So I think if Henry V hadn't copped it and there hadn't been a Joan of Arc figure, the resulting union would have been more equal. I suspect it would have still fallen apart within a century, but it wouldn't have been so much a case of France being the dominant partner, except in terms of them obviously having more people and land (but there wouldn't be a cultural sense of superiority).

 

[mattw101]

What happens to Burgundy in this situation?

 

[Tyr]

I agree that for the early Normans and Plantagenets (certainly Richard Coeur de Lion, John and the Edwards) then 'English France' would swiftly have become 'French England'.

But I'm not so sure when it comes to Henry V. By his time, the English national identity had somewhat reasserted itself (or rather a new one had arisen, with the Normans being absorbed into the Anglo-Saxons) to the extent that he was even able to rouse his army by saying that they were defending the English language. A contrast to the earlier kings who didn't even speak English themselves. So I think if Henry V hadn't copped it and there hadn't been a Joan of Arc figure, the resulting union would have been more equal. I suspect it would have still fallen apart within a century, but it wouldn't have been so much a case of France being the dominant partner, except in terms of them obviously having more people and land (but there wouldn't be a cultural sense of superiority).

Henry V was English enough and I'd imagine his son and maybe grandson would keep some of this but with France being so much stronger I'd think the monarchy would revert to old ways quite fast.
IOTL the English were quite partial to uprisings to head to London and tell the monarch what was wrong with the country. If the monarch is in Paris all the time things could get a bit nastier.

What happens to Burgundy in this situation?

Even the butterflies of a slight change here should assure its existance.
That is until France and/or the HRE decide to centralise.

 

[Rex Britanniae]

I am actually writing a timeline on just this scenario. So far I am still explaining in detail how it happened. Henry V not dying when he did seems the likeliest possibility.

 

[Susano]

But I'm not so sure when it comes to Henry V. By his time, the English national identity had somewhat reasserted itself (or rather a new one had arisen, with the Normans being absorbed into the Anglo-Saxons) to the extent that he was even able to rouse his army by saying that they were defending the English language. A contrast to the earlier kings who didn't even speak English themselves. So I think if Henry V hadn't copped it and there hadn't been a Joan of Arc figure, the resulting union would have been more equal. I suspect it would have still fallen apart within a century, but it wouldn't have been so much a case of France being the dominant partner, except in terms of them obviously having more people and land (but there wouldn't be a cultural sense of superiority).

Yeah, well, I agree with you of course that there was a national identity back then , but not really nationalism. So something similar to the Welf Kings in England would happen: So maybe the initial King of France (Henry V. in this scenario) would still be English and speak English, but would already reside in Paris. His son might also still be English and speak English, but his grandson? And at the latest his great-grandson will be a Frenchman.

 

[stevep]

Yeah, well, I agree with you of course that there was a national identity back then , but not really nationalism. So something similar to the Welf Kings in England would happen: So maybe the initial King of France (Henry V. in this scenario) would still be English and speak English, but would already reside in Paris. His son might also still be English and speak English, but his grandson? And at the latest his great-grandson will be a Frenchman.

Susano

In general agreement but thinking more it would be a case that one grandson would be French [by identity] and another English. If you don't have a formal splitting of the inheritance at some point, a bit like William I dividing his realms between his sons then a junior branch of the throne would make a tempting alternative. Both for those who dislike the 'French' inclination of the monarchy and want a English kind restored and those for any other reason what to split the kingdom.

Steve