WI: England Never Became A Major Colonial Empire?

[AltoRegnant]

Say, for whatever reason, England never build a significant colonial empire. France and Spain would likely have free reign of the New World; the Dutch settlement of New Amsterdam could survive, or become New Paris, i'm not sure, but i highly doubt the netherlands will be able to build as large an american base as England.

Now, I've discussed French settlement in the new world a thousand and three times on this forum, and ultimately there are so many factors limiting French settlement That it got its own thread a while ago and even with appalachia open i'm not sure how much more settlement is possible. Maybe carolina becomes a giant Haiti.

As for Spain, since they already had huge swaths of gold and the english possessions are far from the core of El Imperio Espanol, I doubt it would get much bigger.

Now obviously, England colonized a little more than the american east coast but the butterflies for that stuff is so big i'm not sure what to expect.

What do you guys think?

 

[John7755 يوحنا]

Hmm, perhaps England continually revisits the hope to restore unity between the French and English crowns. This seems the best way to limit colonization efforts to a minimum. Permitting Imperial, Spanish, Portuguese or even Scandinavian colonization to process without much issue as France and England descend into ever more vicious internal feuding.

 

[bpbruce]

England was perfectly placed to send pirates after the transatlantic trade of everyone else in Europe, so this needs something to knock that out.

 

[AltoRegnant]

England was perfectly placed to send pirates after the transatlantic trade of everyone else in Europe, so this needs something to knock that out.

Hm... perhaps they inherit some german state early and have to deal with continental politics more?

 

[bpbruce]

Hm... perhaps they inherit some german state early and have to deal with continental politics more?

Yes, or get their Five Monarchies on, or Spain conquers Ireland and goes full Cromwell on the skinny island to the right with the French helping put ze boot in.

 

[Atrophied]

Yeah getting distracted in europe alot more than otl is the thought. Either the english win the 100 year war , wich they did actually win several times to be honest to a certain extent. Or get involved with germany for some reason , maybe fellow protestant angle most likely or inheriting a electorship and getting distracted there.

Im pretty sure it was the 16th century during elizabeth rule that the british started colonizing north america so have her become distracted with europe seems the most likely angle . Probably maybe marrying a heir of a elector or a widowed elector without heirs and their child then being the eventual elector and king of england makes the most sense. And then be more of a part of the struggles for holy roman empire and protestant vs catholic split even more directly than in otl.

And u can still be pirates against france and spain even if u dont have colonies ..

 

[AltoRegnant]

Im pretty sure it was the 16th century during elizabeth rule that the british started colonizing north america so have her become distracted with europe seems the most likely angle . Probably maybe marrying a heir of a elector or a widowed elector without heirs and their child then being the eventual elector and king of england makes the most sense. And then be more of a part of the struggles for holy roman empire and protestant vs catholic split even more directly than in otl.

Elizabeth oversaw the first attempts, but James I/VII is the one who oversaw successes

 

[Atrophied]

Yeah but she started it and she didnt get married otl . So it makes sense as a pod aswell . Probably someone protestant enough and then their children would inherit enough land in germany to keep english engaged with that instead of colonies makes the most sense as a pod .

U can have the english lose a war or two and the losses being in the colonies maybe as another angle but not that interesting.

Then the other angle is , have henry the fifth survive to become king of france like the treaty promised upon the death of french king like the treaty ending that part of the war ended. Then the english will be distracted with integrating france .

 

[Analytical Engine]

Maybe England decides to compete with the Netherlands over the Spice Islands more vigorously, with only minor interests in the Americas (perhaps restricted to Caribbean islands and a small colony in North America)?

Otherwise, perhaps New England ends up being split between New Netherlands and New France.

Maybe the BEIC never manages to effectively Megacorp their way into governing India, leaving the Subcontinent divided amongst several spheres of influence.

 

[funnyhat]

The most logical way is for England to come under the control of a different crown so that there are no English colonies, just French/Spanish/Portuguese/Luxembourgish ones.

 

[Miranda Brawner]

I suppose the simplest way to accomplish this would be for England to have a government that cares more about respecting other cultures and nations. That way they resist the temptation to conquer new lands, even if they have the means to do so. Another option is have England's (and Europe's) industrialization occur later than that of the rest of the world. A third option would be for England to stay divided into smaller states lime Essex and Kent.

 

[funnyhat]

I suppose the simplest way to accomplish this would be for England to have a government that cares more about respecting other cultures and nations. That way they resist the temptation to conquer new lands, even if they have the means to do so.

They may not want to outright conquer other nations but will want to trade with them and send Christian missionaries to them- which, from their perspective of the time, is the ultimate respect ; they are trying to save the souls of these people. And then they will need some military presence to protect their trading posts and missions, so...

You can have a different English colonial process (perhaps more like New France) but to not have colonies at all is pretty hard unless England is a vassal of another country. If all of the other maritime nations are trading overseas, they will want to be a part of it, too.

 

[AltoRegnant]

I suppose the simplest way to accomplish this would be for England to have a government that cares more about respecting other cultures and nations. That way they resist the temptation to conquer new lands, even if they have the means to do so. Another option is have England's (and Europe's) industrialization occur later than that of the rest of the world. A third option would be for England to stay divided into smaller states lime Essex and Kent.

Your first idea seems likely youd just get a britain with a Persian esque "I'm in charge but you're good as long as I get taxes" since they do need resources

The second idea is sorta moot since industrialization came around after the necessary PODS, unless something really crazy happens centuries prior, making it unrecognizable before we get to the age of exploration. Same with #3