WI: Empress Matilda marries Charles the Good of Flanders

I heard that Empress Matilda was widowed when Charles the Good was ruling Flanders is it possible for Charles the Good to marry Empress Matilda after the Holy Roman Emperor died, the Father of Charles the Good is the King of Denmark, would Charles the Good try to get Denmark back if he marries Empress Matilda?
 
I heard that Empress Matilda was widowed when Charles the Good was ruling Flanders is it possible for Charles the Good to marry Empress Matilda after the Holy Roman Emperor died, the Father of Charles the Good is the King of Denmark, would Charles the Good try to get Denmark back if he marries Empress Matilda?

It's possible that he might go for English backing first to solidify Matilda's claim to the English throne and use that to take Denmark :D
 
This could make for a pretty fantastic TL.

Charles the Good marries the widowed Empress. Assuming William Adelin dies like OTL, he'd probably take Normandy jure uxoris with relative ease. Stephen of Blois is still a problem, though there's always the chance that Charles would be more interested in English affairs than Geoffrey was. Stephen of Blois, his brothers and the French King would not like this union whatsoever, but being an Imperial vassal perhaps Charles would bring his liege-lord the Holy Roman Emperor into this drama when dealing with French ambitions.

EDIT: Following Charles' death in 1127, Matilda could marry William Clito (grandson of William I), who is the heir to both Flanders and England-Normandy. William's superior claim would rather easily displace Stephen from any chance of succeeding and his marriage to Matilda would ensure the two inherit jointly. Cue then lots of drama once Matilda's children from different fathers grow up and get to squabbling about who has the right to what.
 
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This could make for a pretty fantastic TL.

Charles the Good marries the widowed Empress. Assuming William Adelin dies like OTL, he'd probably take Normandy jure uxoris with relative ease. Stephen of Blois is still a problem, though there's always the chance that Charles would be more interested in English affairs than Geoffrey was. Stephen of Blois, his brothers and the French King would not like this union whatsoever, but being an Imperial vassal perhaps Charles would bring his liege-lord the Holy Roman Emperor into this drama when dealing with French ambitions.

EDIT: Following Charles' death in 1127, Matilda could marry William Clito (grandson of William I), who is the heir to both Flanders and England-Normandy. William's superior claim would rather easily displace Stephen from any chance of succeeding and his marriage to Matilda would ensure the two inherit jointly. Cue then lots of drama once Matilda's children from different fathers grow up and get to squabbling about who has the right to what.
Charles the Good was killed due to his lack of power, I don't think that would happen if he marries Empress Matilda, he would be well guarded from assasinations.
 
Not impossible, but not worth the trouble even if His Holiness can be persuaded by a liberal donation.
 
Following the death of her husband the Emperor Henry V, the Empress Matilda set out to return to the court of her father, King Henry of England. The death of her brother William Adelin five years before had left her the presumptive heiress to her father’s possessions, England and Normandy. She was thus the greatest heiress in all of Christendom. Fearful of being kidnapped and forcibly married, she passed into the lands of her cousin Count Charles of Flanders, from where she could pass into Normandy or England with ease. She was still there as envoys arrived, hot on her steps, from the German lords offering the German crown to Charles. Ever domineering and ambitious, Matilda pressured Charles into accepting, with her as his chief supporter and new wife.

The marriage maintained Matilda’s Imperial dignity and strengthened Charles’ position somewhat, particularly given the promise of inheriting independent powerbases in Normandy and England and creating a mighty North Sea empire. Opposition soon rose up all sides - the Pope clamoured against Matilda and Charles’ consanguineous marriage and Matilda’s cousin William Clito stirred up rebellion in Normandy, from where he might well usurp the English throne once her father died. Elsewhere the mighty Duke Lothair of Saxony was “elected” by his supporters while Henry V’s nephews the Hohenstaufens laid claim to various crown lands acquired by their uncle and grandfather.

At length Pope Honorius II, previously a Papal legate to Henry V’s court, granted the necessary dispensation and recognized Charles as German King, desiring as weak an Emperor as possible. Lothair of Saxony defeated Charles in battle but was forced to turn his attention to the far greater Hohenstaufen threat amassing at his rear. The Hohenstaufens and Charles ally, Charles granting them most of their requests in return for aid against Lothair. By the Treaty of Ghent Charles betrothed his infant son, Henry, to Bertha of Swabia, pardoning the Hohenstaufen brothers and restoring them to their lands. The infant soon dies and Charles the Good is assassinated by Flemish agents of Lothar.

Isolated in Flanders, Matilda betroths her young daughter Richtilde to Baldwin of Hainault, one of several claimants to Flanders, and promises another daughter Adela to Frederick, son of Frederick Hohenstaufen of Swabia, German anti-king. Increasingly under pressure in Flanders, Matilda conspires with William Clito, her first cousin, against Baldwin of Hainault, promising him Flanders and her daughter's hand. When her father suddenly dies, Matilda breaks her daughter's betrothal and marries William instead, together claiming Flanders, Normandy and England. Clito's French allies claim various parts of Normandy, also joining the Emperor Lothar in supporting Baldwin of Hainault against the uppity couple. The Pope once again rails against Matilda's marriage and is encouraged by Stephen of Blois, the French and others to forcibly separate the two. "

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A few quick thoughts :p Charles would be too wrapped up in Flanders to really try anything in Denmark, unless his Danish cousins supported (like OTL) Lothar and he claimed Denmark as part of that whole conflict.
 
Following the death of her husband the Emperor Henry V, the Empress Matilda set out to return to the court of her father, King Henry of England. The death of her brother William Adelin five years before had left her the presumptive heiress to her father’s possessions, England and Normandy. She was thus the greatest heiress in all of Christendom. Fearful of being kidnapped and forcibly married, she passed into the lands of her cousin Count Charles of Flanders, from where she could pass into Normandy or England with ease. She was still there as envoys arrived, hot on her steps, from the German lords offering the German crown to Charles. Ever domineering and ambitious, Matilda pressured Charles into accepting, with her as his chief supporter and new wife.

The marriage maintained Matilda’s Imperial dignity and strengthened Charles’ position somewhat, particularly given the promise of inheriting independent powerbases in Normandy and England and creating a mighty North Sea empire. Opposition soon rose up all sides - the Pope clamoured against Matilda and Charles’ consanguineous marriage and Matilda’s cousin William Clito stirred up rebellion in Normandy, from where he might well usurp the English throne once her father died. Elsewhere the mighty Duke Lothair of Saxony was “elected” by his supporters while Henry V’s nephews the Hohenstaufens laid claim to various crown lands acquired by their uncle and grandfather.

At length Pope Honorius II, previously a Papal legate to Henry V’s court, granted the necessary dispensation and recognized Charles as German King, desiring as weak an Emperor as possible. Lothair of Saxony defeated Charles in battle but was forced to turn his attention to the far greater Hohenstaufen threat amassing at his rear. The Hohenstaufens and Charles ally, Charles granting them most of their requests in return for aid against Lothair. By the Treaty of Ghent Charles betrothed his infant son, Henry, to Bertha of Swabia, pardoning the Hohenstaufen brothers and restoring them to their lands. The infant soon dies and Charles the Good is assassinated by Flemish agents of Lothar.

Isolated in Flanders, Matilda betroths her young daughter Richtilde to Baldwin of Hainault, one of several claimants to Flanders, and promises another daughter Adela to Frederick, son of Frederick Hohenstaufen of Swabia, German anti-king. Increasingly under pressure in Flanders, Matilda conspires with William Clito, her first cousin, against Baldwin of Hainault, promising him Flanders and her daughter's hand. When her father suddenly dies, Matilda breaks her daughter's betrothal and marries William instead, together claiming Flanders, Normandy and England. Clito's French allies claim various parts of Normandy, also joining the Emperor Lothar in supporting Baldwin of Hainault against the uppity couple. The Pope once again rails against Matilda's marriage and is encouraged by Stephen of Blois, the French and others to forcibly separate the two. "

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A few quick thoughts :p Charles would be too wrapped up in Flanders to really try anything in Denmark, unless his Danish cousins supported (like OTL) Lothar and he claimed Denmark as part of that whole conflict.

Charles the Good was just like Edward the Confessor, I think a marriage might change him for good and I don't think Charles the Good will be murdered just like what happened to him in OTL.
 
They'll need a papal dispensation. Not sure if the politics of the time make it hard or easy to get.

Given that iberian royalty regularly married uncles to nieces (ick) first cousins shouldnt be a problem.

Maybe its because i'm anglican, and first cousin marriages are allowed in the BCP, maybe its because ive got a a couple of first cousin once removed marriages in my ancestry, but i dont see cousin marriage as a big deal.
 
Given that iberian royalty regularly married uncles to nieces (ick) first cousins shouldnt be a problem.

Maybe its because i'm anglican, and first cousin marriages are allowed in the BCP, maybe its because ive got a a couple of first cousin once removed marriages in my ancestry, but i dont see cousin marriage as a big deal.

Ick indeed. The most famous such marriages were much later than the early 1100s. After 1500, the Hapsburgs' influence was so great that the pope was not going to refuse them any dispesation (they would have been better off if he had).

Your point is basically valid in that there were plenty of such dispensations granted throughout the middle ages. It wasn't a foregone conclusion, though. In fact, sometimes marriages were retroactively nullified for being within the forbidden degrees of consanguinity. Politics was paramount; whether the parties wanting the dispensation in this instance, or those who stood to gain if it was denied, had more influence with the pope is outside the scope of my knowledge.

There is one extra wrinkle. There were several antipapacies in the early 1100s. If Matilda and Clito wanted their dispensation during one of the schisms, if they couldn't get a dispensation from one pope, they might be able to get it from the other. I also suspect that if one pope would refuse a bribe, often the rival pope would not.
 
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