WI: Emperor Otto III doesn't die young?

Holy Roman Emperor Otto III had many impressive ideas. He seemed completely committed to reviving the Western Roman Empire in both name and governance. Otto not only moved the Capital of the Holy Roman Empire to Rome, he also revived many Roman traditions and institutions, including appointing a City Patrician, City Prefect, and a body of judges whom he commanded to recognize only Roman Law, with plans to revive to old Roman Senate. He saw himself and the Pope as God's twin Viceroy's on earth. Sadly for him, he died of a high fever in Ravanna in 1002. My question is what if he hadn't have died? What would the Holy Roman Empire look like if Otto had had more time to consolidate his plans? Would we see a more centralized HRE that included Italy in both name and possession? Would he see a fully revived Western Roman Empire? Or perhaps one of his children on the throne in Constantinople threw his marriage to Princess Zoe of Byzantium? Or would these plans have crumpled either way?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_III,_Holy_Roman_Emperor#cite_note-Canduci.2C_pg._227-20
 
I guess Poland would have played an important role in his revived empire... (see his visit in Poland in year 1000)
 
I guess Poland would have played an important role in his revived empire... (see his visit in Poland in year 1000)

Poland does seem to have captured Otto's interest. Hell both Poland and Hungary. I wonder if Poland would be elevated to a Kingdom earlier if Otto had lived, similar to Hungary.
 
Otto is going to have more to worry about in Italy than Poland or Hungary, at least in the short term (speaking as of 1002).

What we see depends a lot more on the situation after his TTL death than the man himself, I think.

I mean, he can do wonderfully, and have a bad heir screw it all up.

A surviving Otto with issue might draw things more towards hereditary monarchy.
 
Otto is going to have more to worry about in Italy than Poland or Hungary, at least in the short term (speaking as of 1002).

What we see depends a lot more on the situation after his TTL death than the man himself, I think.

I mean, he can do wonderfully, and have a bad heir screw it all up.

A surviving Otto with issue might draw things more towards hereditary monarchy.

True at the time he was waiting for enforcements from Germany to arrive so he could retake Rome. But lets assume hes successful with that (in all honesty I doubt Rome stood much of a chance) and look forward. Since Zoe had just arrived in South Italy around the same time he died, I would assume the next step after retaking Rome would be to marry her.

As for hereditary monarchy, I can't be sure but it seems likely. Or at the very least the Kingdom of Italy would become hereditary with the Empire itself semi-elective.
 
True at the time he was waiting for enforcements from Germany to arrive so he could retake Rome. But lets assume hes successful with that (in all honesty I doubt Rome stood much of a chance) and look forward. Since Zoe had just arrived in South Italy around the same time he died, I would assume the next step after retaking Rome would be to marry her.

As for hereditary monarchy, I can't be sure but it seems likely. Or at the very least the Kingdom of Italy would become hereditary with the Empire itself semi-elective.

The thing is, Otto can't just take Rome and then forget about Italy for a generation. Successful rule doesn't work like that.
 
The thing is, Otto can't just take Rome and then forget about Italy for a generation. Successful rule doesn't work like that.

I'm not saying he would just forget about it. Hell from what he did before he died, he seemed to want to make Rome the capital. If anything, he's more likely to neglect Germany.
 
It's definitely a very interesting PoD, though I think if Otto wants to create a centralised state on a Byzantine model it'll be an uphill struggle for him to reverse a centuries old tendency to fragmentation in both Italy and Germany. He certainly seemed to be skilled and determined before his death, though, which will help things if he doesn't slide into madness or anything like that. Any of his heirs would be 3/4 Byzantine, which could be something intriguing to consider in the context of the decline of the Macedonian Dynasty in the East. I don't think an imperial reunion is at all likely, but a daughter of Zoe and Otto could certainly have considerable sway in Constantinople should she choose to leave the West.
 
A few cautious remarks:

  • Italian cities were not yet that strong in terms of economy, military, and legal positions. So it may still be possible to turn (Upper) Italy into a regular kingdom. I would hesitate to say that about a mere century later!

    Note that for this statement it does not matter so much whether Germany and Italy fall apart again after Otto or even during his lifetime. But Otto could build the foundation for a strong Italian monarchy (that might at some point, ironically, rival his successors).

    .
  • In the Early Middle Ages not even a super-Otto could have ruled even a single kingdom (as Germany OR Italy) centrally; he will always rely on loyal vassals. To set up a truly Roman administration based on appointed royal officers rather than nobility, not only resources were missing (higher barter economy instead of money circulation), but largely even the concepts. The third resource that is required for an actual administration and that the HRE was badly short of was - literate people. Otto went a few bold steps in the right direction - fine. But remember that his opportunities and those of his successors are limited.

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  • The fiercest enemies of a central authority were obviously the top layer of the German nobility. Otto can win against them, once or several times in a row, or he can intimidate them. But the game would start all over with the next Emperor. Future Emperors would appease the dukes by giving out privileges; this undermined central authority irreparably, so this is out of the question here. In the long run (~ 3 generations), nobility will overthrow an unpleasant Emperor unless they have a clear stake in keeping him in place, or are rendered so weak that they are incapable of action against him. Both options seem far out of reach given Otto's resources (see last point).

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  • Now one of my favorite points about the HRE. Unless you are the Emperor or from his kin: Relax! It doesn't really matter whether the throne is hereditary.
    Obviously, none of the people involved would have agreed, but we today may allow us this view. There are many ways how the Empire can evolve, having one dynasty doesn't automatically impy a strong central authority and vice versa.

    There are few even more important questions:

    How much power do dukes and other noblemen have?
    In how far can the Emperor interfere with nobility (e.g. can he dismiss a duke? Decide an unclear succession?)
    In how far can an Emperor give away privileges that constrain his successors?

    There are many ways how power inside the HRE could have been structured. We usually ignore most of them.

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  • Finally, don't overrate potential links to Constantinople. Sure, it can definitely boost his glory and underline his claims for everything associated with "Rome". Perhaps he might learn more about how to organize administration. But don't expect a lot of political or military support. Even Byzantium is not magic after all.
 
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A few cautious remarks:

[*] Finally, don't overrate potential links to Constantinople. Sure, it can definitely boost his glory and underline his claims for everything associated with "Rome". Perhaps he might learn more about how to organize administration. But don't expect a lot of political or military support. Even Byzantium is not magic after all.
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Actually don't underestimate the chance the Rhomanians will actively work against him, his advances in power in Italy are a direct threat to long term Roman Interests in southern italy. It is a natural buffer for the Epirote coast, control of the Adriatic is something emperors have always coveted and Sicily is a potential focal point for control of the entire Med.
 
After reading some more on the subject, is there a chance that the center of the Holy Roman Empire will move from Germany to Italy, especially if its easier to exercise direct central authority there instead of over the German Vassals? Otto III did seem to want to reign from Rome instead of, I would guess Aachen, I'm not really sure about were to Ottonian Emperors reigned from in Germany.
 
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