WI Elizabeth Stuart marries an elector of Brandenburg?

Following up on the "No Elizabeth Stuart" thread from a few weeks ago, I wanted to ask two slightly different questions (one of which I've posted before, actually :eek:).

First, what if Elizabeth Stuart had married a different person--not one of her OTL suitors, but George William, Elector of Brandenburg? He was unmarried until 1616 in OTL, so he could have wed a princess who was considered one of the most beautiful women of the time.

Second, what if Charles, Prince of Wales had died before he could become OTL's Charles I? How would Elizabeth rule as the second queen by that name?

Below are some things I've thought about for a potential timeline (a Word post, hopefully legible). Any additions/changes/questions?

Results
· Marriage
o Elizabeth’s relationship with George William
§ Loving, neutral, or hostile? Why?
o Never marries Frederick V, Elector Palatine
§ Frederick V weds __ instead
§ Could Fred keep his Palatinate (on HRE-French border)?
§ Would Fred still become King of Bohemia?
o George William, in turn, never marries Elizabeth Charlotte of the Palatinate
§ She is married to __ instead
· English Succession
o Charles, Prince of Wales [OTL Charles I] dies early from __
o James I dies from poor health and grief in 1619, 5 years earlier than in OTL
o Elizabeth Stuart becomes Queen of England
§ George William named King Consort upon ATL Elizabeth II’s coronation
· Brandenburg and Prussia Succession
o George William first in line to inherit both when father dies in 1619, as in OTL
§ Where would he choose to rule?
· Politics and Religion
o Return to Catholicism avoided in England
o Lutheranism remains the state religion in Brandenburg
§ George William never follows up on his interest in Calvinism ITTL
· Reign
o How long could ATL Elizabeth II live?
§ Died at 65 in 1662 in OTL. Could live at least three years longer.
o How many children? Who will live to adulthood?
§ Had thirteen in OTL. Nine survived.
§ For convenience, one male child becomes king upon age of majority
Legacy
· No OTL-style English Civil War—English Catholics could rebel instead?
· A Hohenzollern dynasty in England? How long?
Thirty Years’ War
· Different start—Fred might not accept throne of Bohemia by 1619 in ATL
o Who else would?
o Could anyone else help it succeed?
o If a Bohemian Revolt fizzled out, what else would start the war?
France
· Louis XIII still becomes king of France in 1610
o Still marries Anne of Austria in 1615 but
§ Louis has marriage annulled after Anne’s fourth miscarriage in 1631
o Who does Louis marry next?
o Does Cardinal Richelieu still come to/keep power?
o What else happens under Louis’ reign?
o Does France still become the dominant continental power?
o Succeeded by ATL Louis XIV
Spain
· Philip IV still ascends to the Spanish and Portuguese thrones in 1621
o Still marries Elizabeth of France in 1615 ITTL
§ After her death, he marries __
o How long does he reign (lived until 1665 in OTL)?
o Different advisors=Hapsburg dynasty survives in both Spain and Portugal? How much longer?
o Succeeded by ATL Balthazar, who lives to adulthood and succeeds his father


Other countries???
 
Couple questions:

One, what books would you all recommend about the Jacobean era and the Thirty Years' War? Two, could anyone other than the Romanovs come to and keep power in Russia (the pseudo-Rurikids, the Vasas, another noble Russian family)?
 
OTL the perceived Anglo-Palatine alliance was probably a big factor in choosing Frederick to offer the Crown of Bohemia to. The rebels seem to have made offers to several princes, so it could swing differently in this situation. George William himself would almost certainly not be interested.

The period before the 30YW was pretty much a powder-keg waiting to blow (much like 1914 Europe), so something is going to give soon.
 

ingemann

Banned
OTL the perceived Anglo-Palatine alliance was probably a big factor in choosing Frederick to offer the Crown of Bohemia to. The rebels seem to have made offers to several princes, so it could swing differently in this situation. George William himself would almost certainly not be interested.

The period before the 30YW was pretty much a powder-keg waiting to blow (much like 1914 Europe), so something is going to give soon.

I agree that George William wouldn't have taken the offer, and I doubt the Bohemians would have give it to him either. Brandenburg at the timwe was the weakest of the three Protestant electorates, thanks to Brandenburg being both poorer and having a stronger noble estate than Saxony and Palatinate.

Of course Saxony would likely not have taken the offer either as Johann Georg I was to careful to take such deal, which leave only Palatinate as in OTL. Of course without a potential alliance with England, the Bohemian may decide that they will have to crown Ferdinand II, and try getting some gurantees out of him.
 
I agree that George William wouldn't have taken the offer, and I doubt the Bohemians would have give it to him either. Brandenburg at the timwe was the weakest of the three Protestant electorates, thanks to Brandenburg being both poorer and having a stronger noble estate than Saxony and Palatinate.

Of course Saxony would likely not have taken the offer either as Johann Georg I was to careful to take such deal, which leave only Palatinate as in OTL. Of course without a potential alliance with England, the Bohemian may decide that they will have to crown Ferdinand II, and try getting some gurantees out of him.

Now crowning Ferdinand II would be very interesting. It would stop, or at least put off, the thirty years' war.
 
They won't crown Ferdinand. That's the entire point of the rebellion--not crowning Ferdinand. They probably "crown" Gabriel Bethlen, who likely never makes it into Bohemia. The entire Bohemian War lasts a few years. Protestants all look on in horror and scourge themselves about failing to support their fellows. Then they get on with their lives. Ferdinand's reign is quiet again--until he does something else that pushes people's buttons.

Now, onto this marriage--I have to point this out--the Elector-Palatinate is the most illustrious of the secular electors after the King of Bohemia. Despite this, there were people who thought Elizabeth was marrying down. Brandenburg, at this stage, is the least illustrious of them. What makes James go through with this marriage? Finally, as to the conversion to Calvinism--first, it was George William's father who converted to Calvinism. Second, Elizabeth married a Calvinist IOTL, and seems to have been a Calvinist herself, so I don't see how this would change things.
 
OTL the perceived Anglo-Palatine alliance was probably a big factor in choosing Frederick to offer the Crown of Bohemia to. The rebels seem to have made offers to several princes, so it could swing differently in this situation. George William himself would almost certainly not be interested.

The period before the 30YW was pretty much a powder-keg waiting to blow (much like 1914 Europe), so something is going to give soon.

I agree that George William wouldn't have taken the offer, and I doubt the Bohemians would have give it to him either [...]
Saxony would likely not have taken the offer either as Johann Georg I was to careful to take such deal, which leave only Palatinate as in OTL. Of course without a potential alliance with England, the Bohemian may decide that they will have to crown Ferdinand II, and try getting some gurantees out of him.

Now crowning Ferdinand II would be very interesting. It would stop, or at least put off, the thirty years' war.

The Bohemians would probably only accept Ferdinand II at swordpoint, methinks, as Space Oddity pointed out. The questions then would be:
a) Who would they turn to within the HRE itself?
b) What other event could spark an alt-30 Years' War? How about France being the cause, even with the fairly cautious Cardinal Richelieu?

And yes, I mixed up George William with his father, John. Thanks for the correction, Space Oddity! I'll get to the rest of your points soon.
 
They won't crown Ferdinand. That's the entire point of the rebellion--not crowning Ferdinand. They probably "crown" Gabriel Bethlen, who likely never makes it into Bohemia. The entire Bohemian War lasts a few years. Protestants all look on in horror and scourge themselves about failing to support their fellows. Then they get on with their lives. Ferdinand's reign is quiet again--until he does something else that pushes people's buttons.

I agree overall, but why would they pick Gabriel Bethlen in particular if he can't even arrive for his coronation and not another German nobleman?

Now, onto this marriage--I have to point this out--the Elector-Palatinate is the most illustrious of the secular electors after the King of Bohemia. Despite this, there were people who thought Elizabeth was marrying down. Brandenburg, at this stage, is the least illustrious of them. What makes James go through with this marriage?

I thought of George William because Gustavus Adolphus had married a princess of Brandenburg in 1620 OTL. If a Swedish king could do it, why not an English princess? But hindsight is 20/20, and I realize that it might be ahistorical for James to look far ahead to Prussia's OTL prosperity.

I had also thought about Elizabeth marrying Gustavus Adolphus, but there's that pesky Kalmar War going on to prevent it. Could he agree to marry her as a gesture of goodwill for peace talks, or is it better to prevent the war altogether?

Finally, as to the conversion to Calvinism--first, it was George William's father who converted to Calvinism. Second, Elizabeth married a Calvinist IOTL, and seems to have been a Calvinist herself, so I don't see how this would change things.

I goofed, as I said earlier. The only major changes would be in England itself--no English Civil War as we know it, and maybe more of a Low Church Anglicanism.
 
I agree overall, but why would they pick Gabriel Bethlen in particular if he can't even arrive for his coronation and not another German nobleman?

Because they're desperate, and he's pretty much the only one who will bite. And they don't know he won't get there--in fact a big part of the Bohemians' "strategy" IOTL involved help from Bethlen that never quite showed up...
 
Because they're desperate, and he's pretty much the only one who will bite. And they don't know he won't get there--in fact a big part of the Bohemians' "strategy" IOTL involved help from Bethlen that never quite showed up...

Okay, that makes sense. I suppose Frederick V could even offer an alliance with Gabriel to protect the Bohemians while waiting for him to show up--but that never comes to pass, so Fred could still be deprived of his lands. What could happen to him next? Also, you have any book recommendations on this time period? I'd like to use more than Wikipedia, as helpful as it can be.

Thank you all for your comments so far! I'll be out of town for the Oregon Shakespeare Festival next week, so I won't be commenting for a while.
 
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