WI: Elephants in Europe?

What if some elephants from Hannibal's campaign are left behind in his withdrawal and there are enough to avoid inbreeding and become a successful variant? The POD would be not all of them dying before he had to retreat as they wouldn't be able to bring the lumbering beasts back quickly so they'd be abandoned. What affect does a European species of elephant have on Rome, and perhaps all of Europe?
 
A good part of his elephants died out before he even went to Italy. They were simply not fit for crossing mountains and large expeditions.
When he entered in Italy, he had less than 40 elephants, 2/3 of them dying at Trebbia, or because of injuries, or because of cold, end ending with around 10 elephants eventually.
 
I like the idea, but I don't think the POD would really work. Many large mammal animal species and subspecies were driven to extinction within the bounds of the Roman Empire, mostly because the Romans were really gung-ho about rounding up those animals and making them fight gladiators or each other (venatio). A small number of wild North African elephants roaming Italy as a visual reminder of Rome's most hated foe? They're not going to last long. Certainly not longer than their cousins in North Africa, whom the Romans wiped out.

But you could go with the Romans adopting domesticated elephant breeding programs - perhaps as beasts of war, perhaps as beasts of burden, perhaps both. This could lead to widespread use of elephants in the Roman Empire (although climate might keep them out of northern Gaul, Britain, etc.) and, maybe, wild strains could break off at some point and roam the hills of Iberia or Thrace. If the Romans use elephants throughout the heyday of their empire, post-Roman cultures would probably follow suit. And the North African elephant would still be alive today and called something else.
 
I like the idea, but I don't think the POD would really work. Many large mammal animal species and subspecies were driven to extinction within the bounds of the Roman Empire, mostly because the Romans were really gung-ho about rounding up those animals and making them fight gladiators or each other (venatio). A small number of wild North African elephants roaming Italy as a visual reminder of Rome's most hated foe? They're not going to last long. Certainly not longer than their cousins in North Africa, whom the Romans wiped out.

But you could go with the Romans adopting domesticated elephant breeding programs - perhaps as beasts of war, perhaps as beasts of burden, perhaps both. This could lead to widespread use of elephants in the Roman Empire (although climate might keep them out of northern Gaul, Britain, etc.) and, maybe, wild strains could break off at some point and roam the hills of Iberia or Thrace. If the Romans use elephants throughout the heyday of their empire, post-Roman cultures would probably follow suit. And the North African elephant would still be alive today and called something else.
Seems like an interesting premise for a timeline.
 
You could do what Errnge is doing In "The Weighted Scales". Essentially have Carthage last longer and bring elephants into Spain. Over time their becomes a population of wild elephants there (in the same way as how the Syrian Elephants came to be with the Seleucids).
 

Deleted member 67076

The Romans could attempt to copy Carthage's strategy and try to breed elephants, eventually releasing them into the wild while still keeping a stead supply of animals for war and other uses.

Although I admit Rome needs to cut down on the circuses if it wants to have Elephants last. No idea on how to get that to happen.
 
But you could go with the Romans adopting domesticated elephant breeding programs - perhaps as beasts of war, perhaps as beasts of burden, perhaps both. This could lead to widespread use of elephants in the Roman Empire (although climate might keep them out of northern Gaul, Britain, etc.) and, maybe, wild strains could break off at some point and roam the hills of Iberia or Thrace. If the Romans use elephants throughout the heyday of their empire, post-Roman cultures would probably follow suit. And the North African elephant would still be alive today and called something else.
Elephants are not very good beasts of war or burden. They also slow to mature so you spend years feeding them before they become useful. The only reason why they were used in India for so long was that the locals could capture sufficient wild ones.

There is another threat to elephants in Europe as well as being captured for the arena. Ivory hunters.
 
Even neglecting the barriers everyone else mentioned, I'm not sure African elephants would do very well in Europe, barring Iberia and some southerly portions of Italy
 
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