WI: Effect on Islam if Christianity never existed

Of the Christian world of the time, Islam conquered the Levant, Egypt, North Africa, Asia Minor, Visigothic Spain, Sicily. Only Spain and Sicility were recovered... On one hand, most of Islam's most rapid and substantial gains were in the areas considered Heretic by Rome and Constintinople, mostly the Monophysites. On the other, the Crusades (at least the First) helped recover the western half of Asia Minor for awhile... to say nothing of Judea.

At least you know that being Christian provides no surefire prevention from foreign conquest.

The Crusades were a result of an increasingly unstable political landscape in western Europe, which compelled the Roman Church to convince the warrior nobility into channelling their aggression towards the Muslim east, with the Byzantine call for military aid being the pretext for that.

The Christian reconquest of Sicily was more due to the ambitious Norman de Hauteville's, whom left northern France for better opportunities in war-torn Italy. The Normans and Frankish mercenaries were as much opposed to their former Byzantine paymasters and the local Lombards as they were to the Sicilian Emirate.

Spain took centuries for the Christians to recapture. And that was more due to the declining state of the former Caliphate, which had long seperated into the Taifa states.

Take the same Pagan world and try to ponder where the strength to resist Islam would come for. Not unreasonable to envision that a Pagan Constantine still wins his battle, secures the Empire, and moves his capital to Byzantium. His city is still named after and the empire still splits in two. Rome still crushes the inevitable Jewish uprising and the diaspora still scatters the Jews from the Levant. Still see the Germanics, Huns, et al coming in and the western Empire still falling. The eastern Empire would still continue Rome's ancient rivalry with the Parthians/Sassinids. Both are thus weakened enough to still allow something from the Arabian peninsula to take advantage...

Depends on which type of "Paganism" you're refering to. Roman culture before the advent of Christianity was culturally Hellenistic, plus, Aurelian promoted the the new cult of Sol Invictus as the figurehead of the Empire. Diocletian formalized the move for subsequent emperors to style themselves on the eastern Hellenistic monarchs of old, and publically represented himself in the person of Jupiter Optimus Maximus. The Polytheistic background of the Roman Empire was a rich source for crafting a new unifying ideology. Their own equivelant ofthe "Mandate of Heaven" maybe?!

As for the post-Roman Germanic kingdoms, they would either imitate the most recent incarnation of the Roman Imperial Cult, or a seperate cultural development may stem from Germanic Polytheism, which might spread around northern and western Europe.

Definitely a lot of butterflies, but very difficult to see pagan Visigoths getting the Franks and others to stream across the Pyrenees without Rome or Cluny. A pagan shrine in Compostela, perhaps? The Roman attitude to religion would remain pragmatic, if not a bit cynical, moreso than the push towards orthodoxy from Constantinople. Unless something like Hellenism spreads through the Empire, difficult to see any semblance of unity.

Sometimes, a nation just needs to be strong enough in manpower and resources to resist outside invasion. Charles Martel raised a new professional army to defeat the Ummayyad invasion. The Battle of Tours is often seen as a victory for Christianity and European civilization, but the Church was actually opposed to Charles' actions, since he confiscated a great deal of property and land from them to help pay for the war effort. Any large state or federation without a large clerical force may have less constraints on making the appropriate sacrifices if their independence is at stake.

Also, the rise of the Rashidun and the Ummayyad Caliphates had as much to do with the rising Arabian demographic and the economic decline of the Byzantine and Sassanid Empire. It was a combination of factors that resulted in the meteoric rise of the Muslim Arabs. Otherwise, they could have burst beyond the Arabian Peninsula as a disparate series of tribal confederations, going in all directions, but having mixed military success, and probably going no further than Iraq, Armenia, and Tunisia. With no universal religious ideology existing in either post-Roman Europe or western Asia, who can predict what happens next?
 
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looking at the huge time span of things, and Christianity's effect on history, I doubt we would see anything that could be called 'Islam'. We could see another Religion similar to it, but I doubt it would be called the something, or if the history of the region is even remotely similiar to what it is when it developed. It does lead to major questions though, such as how will the Romans progress without Christianity popping up, then taking over? It leads me to doubt that anything would be the same as OTL. Who knows.. there may never even be a Dr.Pepper :O :(
 

yourworstnightmare

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It was an organized religion before the Bar Kokhba Rebellion. It was the remaining diasporic Jews abroad whom pulled themselves together.
Yeah, but without the Christian influences the Oral Torah would never have become the Talmud. And lot of what we today call Judaism is centered around the Talmud.
 
So without the ascent of Chritianity in the Roman Empire, there is a chance that the Jewish diaspora in the west would either fade into complete obscurity, or they would just change beyond the recognition of their Babylonian and Persian-based relatives?!
 

Skokie

Banned
So without the ascent of Chritianity in the Roman Empire, there is a chance that the Jewish diaspora in the west would either fade into complete obscurity, or they would just change beyond the recognition of their Babylonian and Persian-based relatives?!

Without Christianity, the temple would probably be rebuilt after the Jews get tired of rebelling. Judaism likely remains a cultic, sacrificing, priestly religion.
 
Without Christianity, the temple would probably be rebuilt after the Jews get tired of rebelling. Judaism likely remains a cultic, sacrificing, priestly religion.

I think the Emperor Julian ordered for the Temple's reconstruction prior to his invasion of Persian territory. But that would have been cancelled after Jovian ascended the throne.
 
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