WI Edward VI married Lady Jane Grey

Henry VIII was related to all six wives, and pushed for Edward's marriage to Mary Stuart - related to him in the same degree as Jane Grey.
 
Henry VIII was related to all six wives, and pushed for Edward's marriage to Mary Stuart - related to him in the same degree as Jane Grey.

True and of course Mary Stuart eventually married her own first cousin Lord Darnley.

In Europe's royal houses in this time period, there were even several cases of uncles marrying nieces - Philip II, husband of Mary Tudor is one such example. His final wife Anna of Austria was the daughter of his sister, his first two wives were first cousin and first cousin once removed.
 
I believe she would still be Dowager, children or no. And yes, my idea was for her to be made Queen-Regnant, alongside him, á la William III and Mary II. William III needed a special Act of Parliament side-lining her father and sister; in this case, Jane is the legal heir to the throne, so no one needs to be laid aside - I think Edward might be able to do this by his own authority and hurriedly have her crowned.

Catherine Parr was styled as Queen Dowager in the reign of her stepson Edward VI.
 
Both Mary and Elisabeth had both been legaly declared Bastards By Henry VIII. With the death of Edward and a chlidless Jane it comes down to a choice between the current Protestant queen and the Catholic, illegitmate by Royal decree, and act of Parliament Mary who is both single and past childbearing age. (Oh joy a religious civil war)

Mary Tudor managed to overcome the forces of Northumberland because she had popular support, amongst the people and many amongst the nobility even though people knew she would take England back to the Catholic faith.
Mary was until the time of the Spanish marriage deeply popular, many remembered her mother fondly, who was without a doubt the most beloved of Henry’s wives. Mary was symbolic of a calmer time.
Jane Grey’s biggest problem was that her claims were effectively presented by Northumberland, who was hated, especially amongst the nobility.
Mary’s faith may have been unpalatable to many but it was preferable to a Northumberland dictatorship. Of course we shouldn’t forget that many people were both openly and secretly still fond of the Catholic faith so it wasn’t necessarily a total negative for Mary. Many found the Protestant fundamentalism of her brother troubling and assumed that having been a victim of religious persecution that Mary would be more tolerant.
The idea that Mary was really illegitimate, even if she was one legally was a perception held probably by only the most hardcore Protestants and Henry VIII had undermined his own earlier position by providing for Mary and Elizabeth to succeed ahead of the legitimate heirs of his sisters – the only example I can think of in European royal history.
The idea that the law in the 16th century was at the personal whim of the monarch is grossly unfair. Many were keen to see the proper order maintained. The proper order was defined by Henry’s Act of Succession, many were loath to see this tinkered with at that time.
 

Perkeo

Banned
I know it's highly unlikely she would conceive - even if the marriage was sloppily consummated - but how would such an act have altered (if at all) her ability to hold her own against Mary?

Why should she not concieve? Even today there are lots unwanted parents at that age, and given the pressure to avoid a catholic Queen Mary, any problem with Eduard VI's fertiliy would be discretely solved.

Once the heir is born, it doesn't matter who the official successor is: He or she wouldn't be the de-facto ruler, but neither would Mary.
 
Why should she not concieve? Even today there are lots unwanted parents at that age, and given the pressure to avoid a catholic Queen Mary, any problem with Eduard VI's fertiliy would be discretely solved.

Once the heir is born, it doesn't matter who the official successor is: He or she wouldn't be the de-facto ruler, but neither would Mary.

He was already sickly, and generally sexual contact of any kind was considered bad for your health in those times. In his condition they'd probably advise him to stay away from her.
 
Mary Tudor managed to overcome the forces of Northumberland because she had popular support, amongst the people and many amongst the nobility even though people knew she would take England back to the Catholic faith.
Mary was until the time of the Spanish marriage deeply popular, many remembered her mother fondly, who was without a doubt the most beloved of Henry’s wives. Mary was symbolic of a calmer time.
Jane Grey’s biggest problem was that her claims were effectively presented by Northumberland, who was hated, especially amongst the nobility.
Mary’s faith may have been unpalatable to many but it was preferable to a Northumberland dictatorship. Of course we shouldn’t forget that many people were both openly and secretly still fond of the Catholic faith so it wasn’t necessarily a total negative for Mary. Many found the Protestant fundamentalism of her brother troubling and assumed that having been a victim of religious persecution that Mary would be more tolerant.
The idea that Mary was really illegitimate, even if she was one legally was a perception held probably by only the most hardcore Protestants and Henry VIII had undermined his own earlier position by providing for Mary and Elizabeth to succeed ahead of the legitimate heirs of his sisters – the only example I can think of in European royal history.
The idea that the law in the 16th century was at the personal whim of the monarch is grossly unfair. Many were keen to see the proper order maintained. The proper order was defined by Henry’s Act of Succession, many were loath to see this tinkered with at that time.

As I've said before, the Papal Bull confirming Henry VII as King of England gave to him and his heirs the right to dispose of the Crown at their discretion. If he had made Henry FitzRoy heir, there would have been no issue with Catholic law; he avoided it because he wanted to avoid any civil war á la The War of the Roses, which would no doubt have ensued between Henry FitzRoy and Mary's husband (whomever he might be), or between their heirs. Hell, Henry could have placed Charles Brandon in the succession at his personal whim and there'd be no issue with Catholic law (even if the nobility would no doubt protest).
 
The idea that the law in the 16th century was at the personal whim of the monarch is grossly unfair. Many were keen to see the proper order maintained. The proper order was defined by Henry’s Act of Succession, many were loath to see this tinkered with at that time.
True, but I think that Edward could get around that by changing it earlier in a more ordered fashion. And, as you point out, getting Northumberland out of the picture or at least sidelining him by not having Jane married to his son would help hugely.

Why should she not concieve? Even today there are lots unwanted parents at that age, and given the pressure to avoid a catholic Queen Mary, any problem with Eduard VI's fertiliy would be discretely solved.
Well, puberty is generally earlier now than it was back then. (I think the generally accepted explanation is better nutrition and early childhood healthcare.) Still, Edward might decide to ignore his doctors' advice if he thought being pregnant would help Jane's chances on the throne. (Remember how iOTL he changed the succession laws on his deathbed.) Of course, this raises another question: what if she dies in childbirth?
 
He was already sickly, and generally sexual contact of any kind was considered bad for your health in those times. In his condition they'd probably advise him to stay away from her.

And thats where Edwrards duty to himself clashes with the Kings duty to the country. The succession must be secured whatever potential cost to the Kings health.

If Jane dies in childbirth the Mary gets the crown but is weakend by wispers of witchcraft and has to face protestant uprisings accross the country. More than otl she earns the name Bloody Mary.
 
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And thats where Edwrards duty to himself clashes with the Kings duty to the country. The succession must be secured whatever potential cost to the Kings health.
Hear hear.

Though... I've heard that even normally contagious diseases can be transmitted a lot more easily by sex. Would there be a reasonable chance that Jane would fall ill herself?
 
Hear hear.

Though... I've heard that even normally contagious diseases can be transmitted a lot more easily by sex. Would there be a reasonable chance that Jane would fall ill herself?

It's possible she could be perfectly fine, but chances are she could get sick, given the exchange of fluids involved.
 
Edward's illness was respiratory; of course close contact increases the odds of transmission, but intimate contact is probably not a significant increase over, say, dining together. And the fact that Edward's court and household did not catch it implies it was not highly virulent/required an already frail constitution, which I don't believe describes Jane.

An interesting idea; the question is, how many opponents of Mary would rally to Jane rather than Elizabeth? And obviously Jane is willing to marry for the best interests of the country - she may be forbidden to while Mary lives, but when Mary's dead Jane will probably remarry...
 
Edward's illness was respiratory; of course close contact increases the odds of transmission, but intimate contact is probably not a significant increase over, say, dining together. And the fact that Edward's court and household did not catch it implies it was not highly virulent/required an already frail constitution, which I don't believe describes Jane.

An interesting idea; the question is, how many opponents of Mary would rally to Jane rather than Elizabeth? And obviously Jane is willing to marry for the best interests of the country - she may be forbidden to while Mary lives, but when Mary's dead Jane will probably remarry...

Elizabeth attracted little support at the time because everyone knew she wouldn't lift a finger against her sister. I think Jane being placed in a position of power during Edward's reign would facilitate the transfer of power to her, exclusively, upon his death, as a continuance of his régime and not an usurpation (like it seemed like OTL). Having custody of Mary and Elizabeth would infinitely strengthen her position as well, as any noble rallying against her would face a far more daunting prospect of defeat.
 

Perkeo

Banned
Well, puberty is generally earlier now than it was back then. (I think the generally accepted explanation is better nutrition and early childhood healthcare.) Still, Edward might decide to ignore his doctors' advice if he thought being pregnant would help Jane's chances on the throne. (Remember how iOTL he changed the succession laws on his deathbed.) Of course, this raises another question: what if she dies in childbirth?

Just look at the situation from Northumberland's perspective: Eduard fathering a son just before his death would likely make him the most powerful man in England for at least another decade. I'm not saying he would (or even could) deliberately seek that situation, but I am sure he would be a lot more worried about a catholic heiress to the throne than about the health of the young king.

So I suppose Eduard will be advised to do everything that was considered reasonably safe to father a protestant heir. Given his early death, it is far for granted that that race would have been won, but I cannot imagine them sitting around waiting for Mary to inherit the throne either. That would have been like lambs to the slaughterer.
 
Although this thread seems to be old, I still was fascinated by the exchanges. I also wondered at why, King Edward VI, didn't marry his first cousin once removed, Jane Grey. I know popular periodicals and movies portray the young King as very apprehensive to challenge his Father's "line of the succession"; however, in doing my own research, it seems that preventing his very Pius, Catholic sister, Princess Mary, from inheriting his throne. His own will was written, by all accounts, when he first became ill, not actually naming, Jane Grey, but her Males Heir. It wasn't until he was actually facing death that he altered his will with a few strokes of the quill, causing it to read, Jane Grey and her Males Heir. I know that had, King Edward, not gotten ill and lived a long life, England would be a far different country than it is today. Edwards England was absolutely to be a very Protestant England. So I'm almost certain that changing the succession was of his own will and idea, but how it was handled may have well been the young, King Edward VI, making a critical mistake by taking the advise of how to handle his situation from, Lord Dudley Northumberland, who had his own agenda. It's my belief that he felt he should handle the transfer of power from, King Edward VI, to his cousin, Jane Grey, via way of marrying his son, Lord Guildford Dudley, thinking it would in time render him a stronger claim and more power and position for himself. Otherwise, I think things may have very well played out much differently for the Crown and England, had the young, King Edward VI, gone ahead early on in 1551/1552, marrying his cousin, Jane Grey. I feel that had he done so and made her his Regent in his absence, with or without issue, that, Princess Mary, would have found it much the more difficult to seize the Throne. But again, this scenario in comparison with the way things actually played out at the hand of, Lord Dudley Northumberland, would have possibly removed him from his "power base". Also, the other thing that strikes a nerve with me is that in all of the documents that have survived that were written by, Lord Dudley Northumberland, prior to, King Edward VI's, death, portray him as tolerating no, "popery/papist", painting a picture of a die hard Protestant, yet after, King Edward VI's, death and the fall of, Jane Grey, and rise of, Queen Mary I, it was proven how "disingenuous", Lord Dudley Northumberland, was! Even though with the hope of a stay of execution by decapitation if he would just, "embrace the true religion", he switched up in a heart beat in the attempt to save his own skin! In closing I just wanted to make mention of all the postings suggesting it was probably because they were first cousins once removed that, King Edward VI, couldn't/wouldn't, marry, Jane Grey. Actually that wouldn't have been an obstacle at all had, King Edward VI, had the desire/want/need/ or disposition to marry her, as it is a very common practice amongst Royals to marry there cousins, and yes, even first cousins. This practice is deliberate with the thought of keeping the blood line pure and untainted. Well, it's been fun and I look forward to hearing other thoughts on the topic!:)
 
IIRC Mary was still under guard at the time of Edward's death and managed to escape subsequent to this and her popularity lead to her taking the crown over Jane Grey.
If Jane Grey is already Queen Consort then butterflies could make it less likely Mary successfully escapes.
We could see an scenario wherein Mary doesn't escape and dies in seclusion during Jane's reign but Jane remains childless before handing over to Elizabeth :biggrin:
 
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