WI: Edward of Westminster marries Elizabeth of York?

[Anarch King of Dipsodes]

The betrothal is made in say 1469. Everyone settles down to an uneasy peace. It's a very awkward situation: Henry is still around. He might be induced to abdicate in Edward's favor. Is EoW created Prince of Wales (as a lock-in)?

Five years pass. EoW is 21; EoY is 8. Then Edward IV has a son *Richard by Elizabeth Woodville, and it all goes south. Because neither Edward nor the Woodvilles will settle for a "co-heir" when the whole monty is for the taking.

Besides, which I fancy that Margaret will have annoyed a lot of people by this time. The old grudges may have been plastered over, but Margaret will not have forgiven Warwick - or the turncoat Woodvilles. And they won't trust her (or her son) an inch. If Edward dies before EoY is of age for marriage, will EoW hold to the betrothal? It doesn't seem likely to me, nor (IMO) would the Yorkist party think so.

Also, EoW will be feeling his oats, ready to reign ASAP, while *Richard would be a baby king, meaning a long regency for somebody.

If OTOH the crisis gets put off till say 1480 (Edward's OTL last child was born 1480)... EoW and EoY might be married and even have a child, making it very difficult for the Yorkists to repudiate his adoption as heir. If Margaret has died in the meantime, that might ease tensions considerably.

However, *Richard would remain a sore spot with his arguably superior claim to the crown.

 

[The Professor]

Doesn't Montagu gain his marquessate after 1369 (i.e., after POD)? I believe it and the dukedom of Bedford for his son were Edward's carrots to keep Warwick's brother on-side ahead of a Warwick-Lancastrian-French invasion.

Yes, we were just discussing other marquesses of the period to get a feel if any would be created.

 

[material_boy]

@RedKing , do you have a source for this proposed alliance? I ask because I've never seen this in any War of the Roses book. Also, was it actually serious or meant to temporarily neutralize the French/Lancastrians?

Alison Weir mentions it in her history of the WOTR.

I don't think anyone can actually know what Edward IV was thinking in proposing it.

The old grudges may have been plastered over, but Margaret will not have forgiven Warwick - or the turncoat Woodvilles.

I think this POD would come after Warwick has already broken with Edward, so Warwick is a non-factor except in regard to a possible French invasion.

If Edward dies before EoY is of age for marriage, will EoW hold to the betrothal? It doesn't seem likely to me, nor (IMO) would the Yorkist party think so.

I'm not following you here. Why is it you think Westminster would repudiate the marriage after Edward IV's death?

 

[Anarch King of Dipsodes]

think this POD would come after Warwick has already broken with Edward, so Warwick is a non-factor except in regard to a possible French invasion.

The final breach was at the end of 1469. Supposing Edward makes the deal and cuts Warwick out of court. Warwick could continue to intrigue on behalf of Clarence; but Edward's alliance with the Lancasters makes him too strong to challenge, besides denying Warwick any Lancaster allies. So he withdraws to his estates and waits. Still a player, but not active for a while.

I'm not following you here. Why is it you think Westminster would repudiate the marriage after Edward IV's death?

Because he's the rightful King and the Yorks are a lot of usurping traitors? (As his mother will no doubt remind him.) Also, the betrothal, not the marriage - after the wedding and consummation, very likely not.

Now you may say that Henry VII didn't repudiate Elizabeth after Bosworth. But Elizabeth was an adult at that time, and had supported him against Richard III, along with some other prominent Yorkists. Her status as Queen depended on his victory; his reign needed the continued support of the Yorkists who had come over. After Bosworth, Yorkist strength was broken, and Henry's clemency allowed the Yorkists to "come in from the cold".

ATL - Westminster's claim to the crown is stronger than Henry's. But no part of the Yorkist party has fought for him; they've consented, but how willingly? Mutual distrust would remain, and deepen over time in a vicious circle.

And finally - there's a 13-year age difference. Westminster will want to marry and beget an heir ASAP. Also, there could be important foreign marriage alliance possibilities.

 

[RedKing]

The betrothal is made in say 1469. Everyone settles down to an uneasy peace. It's a very awkward situation: Henry is still around. He might be induced to abdicate in Edward's favor. Is EoW created Prince of Wales (as a lock-in)?

Five years pass. EoW is 21; EoY is 8. Then Edward IV has a son *Richard by Elizabeth Woodville, and it all goes south. Because neither Edward nor the Woodvilles will settle for a "co-heir" when the whole monty is for the taking.

Besides, which I fancy that Margaret will have annoyed a lot of people by this time. The old grudges may have been plastered over, but Margaret will not have forgiven Warwick - or the turncoat Woodvilles. And they won't trust her (or her son) an inch. If Edward dies before EoY is of age for marriage, will EoW hold to the betrothal? It doesn't seem likely to me, nor (IMO) would the Yorkist party think so.

Also, EoW will be feeling his oats, ready to reign ASAP, while *Richard would be a baby king, meaning a long regency for somebody.

If OTOH the crisis gets put off till say 1480 (Edward's OTL last child was born 1480)... EoW and EoY might be married and even have a child, making it very difficult for the Yorkists to repudiate his adoption as heir. If Margaret has died in the meantime, that might ease tensions considerably.

However, *Richard would remain a sore spot with his arguably superior claim to the crown.

Hmm, true this would cause a plethora of problems. I suppose a second POD would be required where Elizabeth gives birth to a girl in 1470 and complications during labour prevent her from falling pregnant again, thus preventing a scenario like this from arising and complicating things.

The final breach was at the end of 1469. Supposing Edward makes the deal and cuts Warwick out of court. Warwick could continue to intrigue on behalf of Clarence; but Edward's alliance with the Lancasters makes him too strong to challenge, besides denying Warwick any Lancaster allies. So he withdraws to his estates and waits. Still a player, but not active for a while.

This is probably the most likely fate for Warwick in this timeline, where he loses all semblance of power.

Because he's the rightful King and the Yorks are a lot of usurping traitors? (As his mother will no doubt remind him.) Also, the betrothal, not the marriage - after the wedding and consummation, very likely not.

Now you may say that Henry VII didn't repudiate Elizabeth after Bosworth. But Elizabeth was an adult at that time, and had supported him against Richard III, along with some other prominent Yorkists. Her status as Queen depended on his victory; his reign needed the continued support of the Yorkists who had come over. After Bosworth, Yorkist strength was broken, and Henry's clemency allowed the Yorkists to "come in from the cold".

ATL - Westminster's claim to the crown is stronger than Henry's. But no part of the Yorkist party has fought for him; they've consented, but how willingly? Mutual distrust would remain, and deepen over time in a vicious circle.

And finally - there's a 13-year age difference. Westminster will want to marry and beget an heir ASAP. Also, there could be important foreign marriage alliance possibilities.

Hmm true, though keeping the betrothal does have several benefits too, mainly it guarantees Westminster's ascension and unites the two claims. By the time Edward dies in OTL, Elizabeth will be old enough to marry Westminster and bear children for him, besides the age gap isn't that bad - Westminster's own Grandparents had a bigger age gap.

 

[Anarch King of Dipsodes]

This is probably the most likely fate for Warwick in this timeline, where he loses all semblance of power.

He gives up his position at court (for the moment), but he has still has all his estates and connections. He can still come off the bench when there is opportunity.

Hmm true, though keeping the betrothal does have several benefits too, mainly it guarantees Westminster's ascension,,,

Westminster will hold to tbe betrothal while Edward lives, and until he is crowned. The question is what happens then? Will the Yorkists trust him to follow through after he succeeds, maybe years after? This is speculation at the time - but ISTM the suspicion will arise and potentially poison the truce. There is no guarantee Edward will live long enough.

Once Westminster and EoY are married and have a child, he's constrained and therefore less potentially dangerous.

 

[Euphemios]

If Henry VI's skull is any indication, I do not think Edward will remain very alive under the rule of his cousin, betrothal or not.