WI: Edward of Westminster marries Elizabeth of York?

A what if in honour of Edward of Westminster’s birthday:

In OTL prior to the Readeption, there were negotiations for Edward of Westminster to return to England and marry Elizabeth of York and become the co-heir of Edward IV. Of course this didn’t happen and instead Edward would die at the tender age of 17 in 1471. But what if 1) The Readeption is delayed or butterflied/Edward of Westminster escapes England and 2) Edward IV only has daughters, meaning the marriage is now possible. What would the effects of this be? How would the remaining members of the House of York react to this development.
 
If George or Richard fail to produce any male progeny in the case of Edward IV only had daughters, surely Westminster and Elizabeth's co-rule would possibly not be challenged.

The union between them would be the "true" union of the cadet branches of the Plantagenet Dynasty, thus the Norman-Angevin Lineage of the William the Conqueror and Henry Fitzempress remains unbroken for a time.

Harri Tudur, his Mother, and his Uncle would be relieved they don't have to be the last remaining Lancastrian claimants if Westminster, the true born-in-the-purple Lancastrian Plantagenet heir lives and becomes King of England and Lord of Ireland.
 
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If George or Richard fail to produce any male progeny in the case of Edward IV only had daughters, surely Westminster and Elizabeth's co-rule would possibly not be challenged.
I could see Richard failing to sire a son, since it appears that Anne Neville’s sickliness prevented her from having more children after Middleham in OTL. George on the other hand is much more likely to have a son since he and Isabel had 4-ish children during their marriage. Then again a son of theirs would be a bit too young for Elizabeth, and I am unsure if Edward would marry her to George’s son considering how icy their relationship is.
Harri Tudur, his Mother, and his Uncle would be relieved they don't have to be the last remaining Lancastrian claimants if Westminster, the true born-in-the-purple Lancastrian Plantagenet heir lives and becomes King of England and Lord of Ireland.
Yeah, Henry and Jasper are probably given substantial grants and made members of Henry’s innercircle here.
 
George on the other hand is much more likely to have a son since he and Isabel had 4-ish children during their marriage.
Assuming Warwick was born and lives ITTL, does he keep his father's inheritance as Duke of Clarence under Westminster's watchful eye?
Yeah, Henry and Jasper are probably given substantial grants and made members of Henry’s innercircle here.
Definitely, Westminster could elevate both Harri and Jasper to be Dukes of Richmond and Pembroke respectively.
 
I think something like this could happen if some sort of substantial peace settlement was hammered out to end hostilities. But you would need to have some of the major antagonists and instigators eliminated in some sort of way. The entire Beaufort family, Margaret of Anjou, Warwick, and Richard of York would have to all be out of the way so that Edward IV could set up a real peace.
 
I think something like this could happen if some sort of substantial peace settlement was hammered out to end hostilities. But you would need to have some of the major antagonists and instigators eliminated in some sort of way. The entire Beaufort family, Margaret of Anjou, Warwick, and Richard of York would have to all be out of the way so that Edward IV could set up a real peace.
Well the male Beauforts were dead OTL by 1471.
Margaret of Anjou might have settled for her son as confirmed king later.
Warwick and York are dead by this point or Edward wouldn't be king.
Tudor was nearly bought off by Richmond and could have got Somerset though Buckingham might have a reasonable chance for that one too.
 
Well the male Beauforts were dead OTL by 1471.
Margaret of Anjou might have settled for her son as confirmed king later.
Warwick and York are dead by this point or Edward wouldn't be king.
Tudor was nearly bought off by Richmond and could have got Somerset though Buckingham might have a reasonable chance for that one too.
I suppose I was thinking that by 1471, Edward IV would have already had a son born and as a result would have no need to marry his daughter off to his rival Edward of Westminster.
 
Assuming Warwick was born and lives ITTL, does he keep his father's inheritance as Duke of Clarence under Westminster's watchful eye?
Probably, he received his maternal inheritance in OTL and may well receive it ITTL, especially if George dies before he can once again pursue the throne, since he will look more 'loyal'.
Definitely, Westminster could elevate both Harri and Jasper to be Dukes of Richmond and Pembroke respectively.
I don't think Jasper would be elevated to a Dukedom alongside Henry, that would probably insult the established nobles at the time. Henry could be raised to a Dukedom, but I think the two being raised to a Marquessate is more likely, since it's only two steps up, and is a reasonable promotion for them.
I could see this as being similar to the compromise that ended the Anarchy in 1152, though it would really depend on how Edward of Westminster performed as King.
Yeah, since Westminster is a blank slate (the Joffrey comparisons were spawned by enemies of his family and hence, are biased), he could either be England's greatest or worst King, or just an average one, so it could go either way.
I think something like this could happen if some sort of substantial peace settlement was hammered out to end hostilities. But you would need to have some of the major antagonists and instigators eliminated in some sort of way. The entire Beaufort family, Margaret of Anjou, Warwick, and Richard of York would have to all be out of the way so that Edward IV could set up a real peace.
True, I think Edward of Westminster escaping Bosworth might be the best way to do this since the Beauforts adnd Warwick are out of the picture, and Anne Neville can easily be killed off via an illness. Killing of Margaret of Anjou and Richard mightn't be necessary though. I have heard that Margaret seriously considered the proposal prior to Warwick's offer and Richard of Gloucester's loyalty to Edward IV may transfer down to Elizabeth of York and Westminster, especially since Westminster likely wants to curtail the influence held by the Woodvilles.
Well the male Beauforts were dead OTL by 1471.
Margaret of Anjou might have settled for her son as confirmed king later.
Warwick and York are dead by this point or Edward wouldn't be king.
Tudor was nearly bought off by Richmond and could have got Somerset though Buckingham might have a reasonable chance for that one too.
I agree, Margaret would accept the proposal in a heartbeat if it is the only viable/best way to get Edward the crown. Henry would probably return to England alongside Edward in this scenario and would likely receive an Earldom at some point (by virtue of Edward's ascension, though it might not be Richmond or Somerset).
I suppose I was thinking that by 1471, Edward IV would have already had a son born and as a result would have no need to marry his daughter off to his rival Edward of Westminster.
Hmm, true. Maybe a second POD could be that Edward V is born a girl and the pregnancy prevents Elizabeth Woodville from falling pregnant again.
 
I don't think Jasper would be elevated to a Dukedom alongside Henry, that would probably insult the established nobles at the time. Henry could be raised to a Dukedom, but I think the two being raised to a Marquessate is more likely, since it's only two steps up, and is a reasonable promotion for them.
As egregiously as I said that, sure the rank of Marquessate with certainly satisfy the both of them for the time being.
 
As egregiously as I say that, but sure the rank of Marquessate with certainly satisfy the both of them for the time being.
Yeah, it's the second highest ranking title in the peerage and would come with a decent amount of prestige and wealth for the two.
 
I'd have to dig out a book to confirm, but I'm pretty sure this offer was made in 1469? It was not long before the Readeption that Edward IV wrote to Margaret of Anjou proposing a reconciliation between their families. If she is to accept, then the Readeption is butterflied away entirely -- she cannot possibly wed her son into the Yorkist regime and accept an alliance with Warwick to overthrow the Yorkist regime at the same time.

This POD does put Warwick in an interesting spot. His relationship with Edward has already degraded significantly and he was already likely in touch with the French by this point. It is probably too late to butterfly away his Redesdale Rebellion, but if he still allies with Louis XI against Edward then his invasion would have to rest on the lie that Edward IV was a bastard and try to depose him in favor of the more easily manipulated George. Could he catch Edward off guard as he did in OTL and manage to briefly crown George king of England before Edward returned from the continent (possibly with Margaret and Westminster at his side?) to reclaim the throne?
 
I agree, Margaret would accept the proposal in a heartbeat if it is the only viable/best way to get Edward the crown. Henry would probably return to England alongside Edward in this scenario and would likely receive an Earldom at some point (by virtue of Edward's ascension, though it might not be Richmond or Somerset).
The title yes but maybe not the land.
As egregiously as I said that, sure the rank of Marquessate with certainly satisfy the both of them for the time being.

Yeah, it's the second highest ranking title in the peerage and would come with a decent amount of prestige and wealth for the two.
I agree not a duchy for either but why even a marquessate? There were only ever 2 created previously and both revoked
 
I agree not a duchy for either but why even a marquessate? There were only ever 2 created previously and both revoked
I am guessing you mean for Robert de Vere and John Beaufort -- though, technically, there were three marquessates for these two men, as Beaufort was marquess of Somerset and Dorset before Henry IV stripped him of the titles.

The marquessate sadly made a comeback under Henry VI. (I agree with Henry IV's remark that it is a strange title for an Englishman.) Both Somerset and Suffolk were made marquesses before being elevated to dukedoms. In Somerset's case, he actually kept the marquess title and "marquess of Dorset" became a subsidiary title for the duke of Somerset. Suffolk was simply upgraded form marquess of Suffolk to duke of Suffolk.
 
I am guessing you mean for Robert de Vere and John Beaufort -- though, technically, there were three marquessates for these two men, as Beaufort was marquess of Somerset and Dorset before Henry IV stripped him of the titles.

The marquessate sadly made a comeback under Henry VI. (I agree with Henry IV's remark that it is a strange title for an Englishman.) Both Somerset and Suffolk were made marquesses before being elevated to dukedoms. In Somerset's case, he actually kept the marquess title and "marquess of Dorset" became a subsidiary title for the duke of Somerset. Suffolk was simply upgraded form marquess of Suffolk to duke of Suffolk.
Ah, I missed Suffolk. Who also came to a bad end.
Assuming either Edward continues with creating the titles could we even see Duchies reserved for royal sons and Marquessates for non royals?
 
I'd have to dig out a book to confirm, but I'm pretty sure this offer was made in 1469? It was not long before the Readeption that Edward IV wrote to Margaret of Anjou proposing a reconciliation between their families. If she is to accept, then the Readeption is butterflied away entirely -- she cannot possibly wed her son into the Yorkist regime and accept an alliance with Warwick to overthrow the Yorkist regime at the same time.
I think it was 1469, or at the very least in the lates 1460s. I could see her accepting the offer if Warwick is delayed because of a storm or if she just decides it’s the better deal.
This POD does put Warwick in an interesting spot. His relationship with Edward has already degraded significantly and he was already likely in touch with the French by this point. It is probably too late to butterfly away his Redesdale Rebellion, but if he still allies with Louis XI against Edward then his invasion would have to rest on the lie that Edward IV was a bastard and try to depose him in favor of the more easily manipulated George. Could he catch Edward off guard as he did in OTL and manage to briefly crown George king of England before Edward returned from the continent (possibly with Margaret and Westminster at his side?) to reclaim the throne?
Hmm, this is interesting. If the Redesdale rebellion does occur Warwick only has two options. A). Go all in on Clarence’s claim though it wouldn’t have as much support as the Lancastrian or mainline Yorkist claims did in OTL, or B). Reconcile with Edward IV. If he goes with A He probably loses in the long run, but may make some gains at the beginning since Edward may be caught off guard. If he goes with B, he may cause Westminster some trouble later down the line.
The title yes but maybe not the land.
Hmm, true. He could be given the Richmond lands but a different Northern title.
I agree not a duchy for either but why even a marquessate? There were only ever 2 created previously and both revoked
I’d imagine the logic behind creating Henry and Jasper Marquesses would be to make the powerful noblemen who’s loyalty to Edward would he almost guaranteed. Then again he could do so without making then Marquess
I am guessing you mean for Robert de Vere and John Beaufort -- though, technically, there were three marquessates for these two men, as Beaufort was marquess of Somerset and Dorset before Henry IV stripped him of the titles.
Ah, I missed Suffolk. Who also came to a bad end.
Assuming either Edward continues with creating the titles could we even see Duchies reserved for royal sons and Marquessates for non royals?
John Neville was also made a Marquess too, though I forgot what I was called.
 
Montagu apparently. His son was briefly Duke of Bedford.
Man, titles were all over the place in the WotR!
Yeah, apparently his son was made the Duke of Bedford so that he could marry Elizabeth of York. It gets even crazier too since there was often two people claiming the same title!
 
I think it was 1469, or at the very least in the lates 1460s. I could see her accepting the offer if Warwick is delayed because of a storm or if she just decides it’s the better deal.

Hmm, this is interesting. If the Redesdale rebellion does occur Warwick only has two options. A). Go all in on Clarence’s claim though it wouldn’t have as much support as the Lancastrian or mainline Yorkist claims did in OTL, or B). Reconcile with Edward IV. If he goes with A He probably loses in the long run, but may make some gains at the beginning since Edward may be caught off guard. If he goes with B, he may cause Westminster some trouble later down the line.

Hmm, true. He could be given the Richmond lands but a different Northern title.

I’d imagine the logic behind creating Henry and Jasper Marquesses would be to make the powerful noblemen who’s loyalty to Edward would he almost guaranteed. Then again he could do so without making then Marquess


John Neville was also made a Marquess too, though I forgot what I was called.
Montagu apparently. His son was briefly Duke of Bedford.
Man, titles were all over the place in the WotR!
Doesn't Montagu gain his marquessate after 1369 (i.e., after POD)? I believe it and the dukedom of Bedford for his son were Edward's carrots to keep Warwick's brother on-side ahead of a Warwick-Lancastrian-French invasion.
 
@RedKing , do you have a source for this proposed alliance? I ask because I've never seen this in any War of the Roses book. Also, was it actually serious or meant to temporarily neutralize the French/Lancastrians?
 
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