WI:Edward III Takes The French Throne

This does not necessarily mean he gets all of France. And, let's discuss the effects after the POD and not the plausibility of the POD and all. My chosen POD is that Philip VI dies months after his coronation and Edward III defeats the French and takes the throne from Philip's baby son. What would be the effects? What will happen to Burgundy? Will there still be the Lancastrians and all? What will happen in France? Where will the Plantagenets be based? What if?
 
Itd probaly be easier in the long run for him and his descendents just to take the literal throne, rather than the metaphorical one of the kingdom....lot less heavy and annoying too
 
Itd probaly be easier in the long run for him and his descendents just to take the literal throne, rather than the metaphorical one of the kingdom....lot less heavy and annoying too

Let's have him rule France, or most of it. The Plantagenets could end up building an empire in Europe.
 
This does not necessarily mean he gets all of France. And, let's discuss the effects after the POD and not the plausibility of the POD and all. My chosen POD is that Philip VI dies months after his coronation and Edward III defeats the French and takes the throne from Philip's baby son. What would be the effects? What will happen to Burgundy? Will there still be the Lancastrians and all? What will happen in France? Where will the Plantagenets be based? What if?

Philip VI became king in 1328 when Edward III was only 16 and did not rule yet in England.

You first need to have a conflict : the war started in 1337.

Philip VI's son John was born in 1319. So this future John II was 18 in 1337.

From 1328 on, the succession rule was that nobody could become king through a female line.

But anyway, let's say that Edward III becomes peacefully king of France through the remarkable diplomacy of his mother Isabelle (rather than by force which was impossible at the time) in 1328 because Philip of Valois and his brother Charles of Alençon died before 1328. Same thing for the house of Evreux : Charles of Etampes and Philip of Evreux either are dead or like so much their young cousin Edward that there is an almost unanimous support for Edward.

Then France and Paris become the core of the Plantagenet empire. England becomes a satellite the same way the low countries became a satellite of the Habsburg empire centered on Spain with Charles V and Philip II.

Then you can forget the Lancasters and Yorks.

I doubt Edward will marry Philippa of Hainaut. His best interest would be to marry his cousin Jane of Navarra (the daughter of Louis X who had been deprived of her rights to the throne because she was a girl and a small child).
 
What would stop the Frengland government from then trying to radiate outwards even more? I could see them marshaling the resources of both to go after chunks of Italy and Spain, and a wicked scenario could see a Granada-Frengland alliance against Castile, Leon, Portugal, and maybe the Italian states.

Edward III would probably marry a French princess to solidify the line and make sure his kids have even less of a challenge to deal with once they succeed the throne. Also, why would Paris automatically become the capital? London has a centralized bureaucracy and is an easy port to trade from, Paris would certainly be important but I am not sure it would automatically become the capital
 
What would stop the Frengland government from then trying to radiate outwards even more? I could see them marshaling the resources of both to go after chunks of Italy and Spain, and a wicked scenario could see a Granada-Frengland alliance against Castile, Leon, Portugal, and maybe the Italian states.

Edward III would probably marry a French princess to solidify the line and make sure his kids have even less of a challenge to deal with once they succeed the throne. Also, why would Paris automatically become the capital? London has a centralized bureaucracy and is an easy port to trade from, Paris would certainly be important but I am not sure it would automatically become the capital

Why do people automatically assume that there will be French England in this scenario? It doesn't necessarily have to be. England is a much stronger base, given the decentralising tendencies of France. Or perhaps the Plantagenets get a new base in France, like Anjou?
 
I did not say England would become french. I said England would be satellized for basic geographical and demographic reasons.

France was 4 to 5 times as populated as England. Why do you think the Stuarts chose England and London the center of Great Britain rather than Scotland ?
Same question for the Trastamara and Habsburg in Spain who chose Castile as their center base.

And France is situated in the heart of the european continent where the major geopolitical interests and possibilities for expansion are situated.

As far as centralization is concerned, France had centralized too at that time. It had copied many of the Plantagenet institutions.
 
This does not necessarily mean he gets all of France. And, let's discuss the effects after the POD and not the plausibility of the POD and all. My chosen POD is that Philip VI dies months after his coronation and Edward III defeats the French and takes the throne from Philip's baby son. What would be the effects? What will happen to Burgundy? Will there still be the Lancastrians and all? What will happen in France? Where will the Plantagenets be based? What if?
If Edward III marries Joan of Navarre it is also likely that John of France would marry Giovanna of Naples who I think would be helpful to him in some way.
 
Who is this John of France ?

The son of Philip of Valois who we have had die before he could become king ?

Or king John I who died in 1316 a few dans after being born ?
 
So I am not sure at all that he marries to Joan of Naples.

Remember we had his father and paternal uncles all die before 1328.

Why not marrying him to one of the two sisters of Edward III ?

This is the best way to have peace among all these great grandchildren of king Philip III of France, without having the french Valois continuing the dynastic contest.

This could be the global compromise engineered by Isabelle and supported by the States General. In this scenario, you have no longer a salic law. The logical legal conclusion of Edouard III being chosen as king and marrying Joan II of Navarre, Edward III, is that Philip V becoming king in 1316 was just a necessary but temporary provision at the time when the country needed to avoid a very long regency for a child queen who cold not govern by herself and whose husband could not be known before a 10 years delay.
 
So I am not sure at all that he marries to Joan of Naples.

Remember we had his father and paternal uncles all die before 1328.

Why not marrying him to one of the two sisters of Edward III ?

This is the best way to have peace among all these great grandchildren of king Philip III of France, without having the french Valois continuing the dynastic contest.

This could be the global compromise engineered by Isabelle and supported by the States General. In this scenario, you have no longer a salic law. The logical legal conclusion of Edouard III being chosen as king and marrying Joan II of Navarre, Edward III, is that Philip V becoming king in 1316 was just a necessary but temporary provision at the time when the country needed to avoid a very long regency for a child queen who cold not govern by herself and whose husband could not be known before a 10 years delay.
I think in that scenario the most likely wife for the OTL John II would be the OTL Eleanor, Duchess of Guelders, who I think is near to the age of John...
 
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