WI: Edward II marries Isabella of Castilla?

ByzantineLover

Bumping for interest.

While setting up this scenario for a CK2 game, I realised that this marriage might have wider consequences in Europe. If Edward II marries Isabella of Castile, I could see Philip IV marrying his daughter to John of Luxembourg, which leaves Elizabeth of Bohemia still available for marriage to another ambitious German noble. My first thought was Louis of Bavaria (OTL Holy Roman Emperor Louis IV), who IOTL didn't marry his first wife until October of 1308. It's possible we might see an earlier (and maybe longer-lasting) Wittelsbach Bohemia, so the Luxembourgs would have to find another avenue of expansion. I'm not sure where, though.

Any thoughts?
 
Avrorrange

Avrorrange

VVD0D95 said:
Then, it might well mean that the root cause of the hundred years war imho, Edward III's claim is butterflied away, due to there being no actual claim for Edward II and Isabella of Castille's son. Could also prevent Roger Mortimer's coup, if Isabella does not take the man as a lover. Also means, Philippe himself might be a bit more cautious, due to the presence of such a power
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A war between England and France will definitely still happen.France will never be content unless all English lands on the continent are gone.The kings of England will never be satisfied if they remained vassals to the king of France.While the King of England might not claim the French throne,he'd still try to grab as much as he can if he is in a winning position.
 
kasumigenx

kasumigenx

What about splitting the lands of plantagenets such as aquitaine to the cadet clan of the plantagenets, to the son of Edward I with Margaret.
 

Kellan Sullivan

ByzantineLover said:
Bumping for interest.

While setting up this scenario for a CK2 game, I realised that this marriage might have wider consequences in Europe. If Edward II marries Isabella of Castile, I could see Philip IV marrying his daughter to John of Luxembourg, which leaves Elizabeth of Bohemia still available for marriage to another ambitious German noble. My first thought was Louis of Bavaria (OTL Holy Roman Emperor Louis IV), who IOTL didn't marry his first wife until October of 1308. It's possible we might see an earlier (and maybe longer-lasting) Wittelsbach Bohemia, so the Luxembourgs would have to find another avenue of expansion. I'm not sure where, though.

Any thoughts?
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Considering how things went OTL, what with Isabelle's son claiming the French throne, how might things go differently in a similar alt-scenario where she's married to a Luxemburg? And is her marriage early enough that the direct Capetians are affected by the butterflies (say one of her brothers leaves a surviving son, or the Tour de Nesle affairs never occur - this isn't really my specialty area, but I think the consequences could be HUYOOGE!)
 

Cornelis

Kellan Sullivan said:
Considering how things went OTL, what with Isabelle's son claiming the French throne, how might things go differently in a similar alt-scenario where she's married to a Luxemburg? And is her marriage early enough that the direct Capetians are affected by the butterflies (say one of her brothers leaves a surviving son, or the Tour de Nesle affairs never occur - this isn't really my specialty area, but I think the consequences could be HUYOOGE!)
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Isabelle played a great role in the revelation of the Tour de Nesle affair, so we can assume it would be butterflied or at least postponed, leading to the possibilities of a son or two from Louis X (or at least his wife). Given the very feeble legal argument of Edward's claim, I do not see a Luxemburg using it in France. He would have next to no support at all.
 

ByzantineLover

Cornelis said:
Isabelle played a great role in the revelation of the Tour de Nesle affair, so we can assume it would be butterflied or at least postponed, leading to the possibilities of a son or two from Louis X (or at least his wife).
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Maybe, but Luxembourg isn't much further from Paris than London, and there's no ocean separating them. And with no Bohemia to occupy the Luxembourgs, there might not be much to stop Isabella from returning home and discovering and possible wrongdoings.
 

Cornelis

ByzantineLover said:
Maybe, but Luxembourg isn't much further from Paris than London, and there's no ocean separating them. And with no Bohemia to occupy the Luxembourgs, there might not be much to stop Isabella from returning home and discovering and possible wrongdoings.
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True, but if she is more often a the French court, the whole thing might still be kept secret. Her sisters in law would not give her presents to their lovers if she comes back every semester. Of course they did not seem to be very prudent...

Would Philip the Fair marry his daughter to John ? His father is the Emperor, but he does not have much else. Alfons of Aragon is a good alternative. Might do for a truly frightening alt-Peter IV.
 

ByzantineLover

Cornelis said:
Would Philip the Fair marry his daughter to John ? His father is the Emperor, but he does not have much else. Alfons of Aragon is a good alternative. Might do for a truly frightening alt-Peter IV.
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Alfonso of Aragon would be a good alternative, but the more obvious candidate would have been his older brother, James, who IOTL was known for being quite fickle and decided to become a monk, despite having shown no interest in monastic life. I suppose that may have had something to do with the fact that he was 11 years older than his betrothed, Eleanor of Castile. But with a betrothed closer in age to him...
 
Georgie777

Georgie777

Banned
ByzantineLover said:
As we all know, Edward II of England was originally betrothed to Margaret, Maid of Norway, before her death in 1290, and then to a daughter of the Count of Flanders before it was broken up by Philip IV of France. But from reading this blog post by Kathryn Warner, (http://edwardthesecond.blogspot.com.au/2007/06/more-betrothals.html?m=1. Check out the rest of the blog, it's great!), I learned that he was also in 1302 offered the hand of Isabella, elder sister of Ferdinand IV of Castile.

What if the two had actually married? Personally, Edward could still get a French alliance if he marries Margaret/Blanche of France. I'd also recommend checking out the rest of Kathryn Warner's blog.
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We'd probably all be speaking English now if that happened.
 
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