WI: Edmund Earl of Rutland Lives

(This is restarting my WI: Sir John Grey... thread)

So, at the Battle of Wakefield in 1460 Edmund, Earl of Rutland manages to flee successfully, and joins with Warwick's men. Edmund fights at the Second Battle of St. Albans - unknowingly setting off a butterfly effect that spares the life of Sir John Grey of Groby, whilst resulting in the deaths of Sir Henry Stafford and John Stafford.

As a result, Edmund fights at Towton which sets even more butterflies into play - such as the survival of Northumberland, who flees to his holdings in the North. Edward is victorious and is officially crowned in London. Edmund is invested Duke of Clarence; George is invested Duke of Bedford and Richard is invested Duke of Bedford.

1461, Warwick and his brother try to secure the North for Edward - but Nortumberland has a tight grasp, bringing more battles into existence and giving the Lancastrians - currently in Scotland - a potential pathway into England. In London, Edward begins to rely more heavily on Edmund after a while of separation - later resulting in an irritated Warwick and a less influential Hastings. Edward, as he does historically, is not keep to ally with the French, preferring a pro-Burgandian approach.

1462, Warwick begins to negotiate with the French on Edmund's behalf, but they are less eager than historically as the realm is still not stabalised due to Nortumberland's hold on the North. With Scottish troops, Margaret ventures into England and Edward is forced to bring a large army to meet her - with Edmund as one of his commanders - and there is a decisive Yorkist victory, eliminating more than half of the Lancastrian army. Northumberland escapes but most of his castles - bar Alnwick - are successfully seized, lessening his control in the North. Margaret of Anjou's force depletion prompts her to flee to France for aid. Edward discusses the possibility of creating an Anti-French alliance and his politically-savvy brother suggests a match with Marie of Brittany then, and Edward is interested. The idea begins to be discussed with his Councillors with more interest - angering Warwick. Later in 1462, Margaret arrives with a generous force from France, and arrives via the North again. Results in a bloody battle that sees the death of Nortumberland and Margaret's swift retreat to France once again. Edmund is then sent in person to negotiate with Francis, Duke of Brittany, for Marie of Brittany's hand. After some negotiating, Francis agrees to wed Marie to Edward with a decent dower and the promise of Brittany's allegiance in any potential movements against France. Edward marries Marie in December 1462. An unsuccessful, low-scale Lancastrian rebellion results in the death of young Henry Stafford, Duke of Buckingham.

1463, Edmund is married to Anne Stafford (b. 1446) who is (along with her two sisters Katherine and Joanna (two other sisters weren't married so I assume they entered a Nunnery or died relatively young so won't inherit)) inheriting the money and lands from the Dukedom of Buckingham. Edward also invests Edmund as Duke of Buckingham. Edward begins to exchange letters with Burgundy - striving for good relations and an alliance. The idea of George, Duke of Bedford marrying Mary of Burgundy is mentioned, but not committed to. Northumberlands lands are given out mainly between Edmund and Warwick - but more to Edmund giving Warwick more reason for discontent. However, the amount of lands and money is still enough to keep him loyal.

1464, despite Warwick and Edmund's more consistent presence in the North it continues to stay mostly loyal to the Lancastrians - the Battle of Hexham and several rebellions are started on their behalf arguably thanks to Northumberland's prolonged presence in the North. This is not the end of Lancastrian resistance in the North.

1465, Warwick requests the hands of the two younger royal Dukes for his daughters. Edward is tempted to refuse, but Edmund reasons with him about how that will just further discontent Warwick, and Isabel Neville marrying a third son is not too large a threat. Edward agrees, and George, Duke of Bedford marries Isabel Neville - whilst the latter (Richard and Anne) is refused. France, enbolded by the continuing Lancastrian resistance in the North, give more to Margaret of Anjou's cause, as they believe they can win the throne for her and then end English occupation in France (Calais) which they find even more imperative given England's alliances with Brittany and Burgundy which are to either side of France.

So, by 1465 the male Yorkist family tree is looking like this:

Edward IV m. Marie of Brittany
(1) stillborn son (1463)
(2) Edward, Prince of Wales (1465-)

Edmund, Duke of Clarence and Buckingham m. Anne Stafford
(1) Richard, Earl of Rutland (1464-)

George, Duke of Bedford m. Isabel Neville

Will be posting more soon :)
 
Would Edward be inclined to pulling some legal shenanigans to give Edmund all of the Stafford inheritance? The other two sisters are married to Lancastrian types, after all.

How exactly is a 7 year-old Henry Stafford Duke of Buckingham getting killed in a revolt?

Two Duke's of Bedford?
Presumably one is meant to be Gloucester.
 
Would Edward be inclined to pulling some legal shenanigans to give Edmund all of the Stafford inheritance? The other two sisters are married to Lancastrian types, after all.

How exactly is a 7 year-old Henry Stafford Duke of Buckingham getting killed in a revolt?



Presumably one is meant to be Gloucester.
Yes, one is supposed to be Gloucester and Henry Stafford is killed in a revolt provoked by the continued Lancastrian foothold in the North making other Lancastrians more prone to rebellion - as Margaret of Anjou has more power in England here than historically. It wasn’t specifically aimed at him - as he was a Lancastrian - he was just hit in the crossfire (I’ll put some kind of rebellion taking place wherever he is in 1462 (I’ll have to have a look into his whereabouts)).

And yes, I believe Edward would be inclined to do so - which is shown through him giving his brother the title of the Duke of Buckingham. Perhaps he could create an act where those who committed treasonous acts during his reign (which he could say started when he proclaimed himself to be King in Feb rather than when he was crowned in the summer - making anyone who fought at the later battles committing treason) are not eligible to inherit via their wives?
 
I hope Margaret of York gets married to Charles the Bold sooner so that he gets a son.
Isabella of Bourbon historically survives until 1465 - which makes him unable to marry Margaret of York until 1466 (I believe the appropriate mourning period was around a year). So unless I have her killed off early then it is unlikely that Margaret would have more fertility based on a two year difference in when she marries him.

If I was to say an early goodbye to Isabella of Bourbon, how would you propose it is done? Or do you believe that Margaret would have an increased fertility two years previously?
 
That means George is up for even more of the Warwick inheritance than OTL. Edmund better watch out!
yes, it could be quite worrying if he’s still as ambitious as he is historically! However, as he now has little chance of ever gaining the throne - Edward IV, Prince Edward, Edmund and Richard, Earl of Rutland all coming before him - surely that would decrease his ambitions somewhat?
 
yes, it could be quite worrying if he’s still as ambitious as he is historically! However, as he now has little chance of ever gaining the throne - Edward IV, Prince Edward, Edmund and Richard, Earl of Rutland all coming before him - surely that would decrease his ambitions somewhat?
I think it just changes his target.
 
Isabella of Bourbon historically survives until 1465 - which makes him unable to marry Margaret of York until 1466 (I believe the appropriate mourning period was around a year). So unless I have her killed off early then it is unlikely that Margaret would have more fertility based on a two year difference in when she marries him.

If I was to say an early goodbye to Isabella of Bourbon, how would you propose it is done? Or do you believe that Margaret would have an increased fertility two years previously?
No, they married on 1468, the marriage could be made earlier.
 
Okay, so I’ve done a little research into infertility in women, and how an early marriage could affect Margaret of York and Charles the Bold having any children. Fibroids can develop in women during their reproduction years at any point (from what I’ve read anyways, though mostly between 30 to 50). So, hypothetically if fibroids developed in Margaret of York around 1470ish, then if she married him in 1466 she could have no had it yet.

In 1470 (I know she married him in 1468, but it’s relatively common for couples not to have children within the first year or two) Margaret is 24, so it’s more likely for her to have developed it then than when she is 20. So that could be a way to get around it - so hypothetically she could have a child in 1467/8 before the fibroids kicked in?

(I’m not saying she did have fibroids but she hypothetically could have)
 
1466, after the death of Isabella of Bourbon in 1465 and almost a year of mourning, Edward IV begins to look into a marriage between his sister Margaret and Charles the Bold. With England already having an alliance with Brittany, with Burgundy’s anti-French ideals and with Edward in this TL not interested in a French alliance it means that the marriage is done in 1466. Louis XI, as he does historically, tries to prevent the marriage from taking place but does not succeed. The idea of betrothing Mary of Burgundy to Richard, Duke of Gloucester is brought up but nothing comes to frustration. With Louis XI beginning to support Margaret of Anjou more actively (such as outlawing trade between the English and the Northern Coast of France to damage the English economy), Edward begins to branch out to look for more foreign support. Edmund proposed an Iberian match for Richard, Duke of Gloucester; the Council begin to look towards Portugal and Eleanor of Viseu is recommended. As she is a cousin of a King, and a second daughter at that, Eleanor of Viseu does not necessarily need a King or a second son. The match is proposed to Portugal and they consider it - somewhat resistant due to the future King of Portugal’s fondness towards Eleanor.

1467, Edward passes an act that deprives the two other Stafford girls (Katherine and Joanna) of the inheritance - giving it all to his brother; Edmund. The act bans any person who has committed treasonous acts from inheriting money, lands or titles via their wives. The marriages of Katherine and Joanna are to Aubrey de Vere and Viscount Beaumont, both who were Lancastrian supports who (I am assuming) fought at Towton, which took place after Edward IV was proclaimed King - therefore making fighting there (or just supporting the Lancastrian with money) treasonous. As a result, Edmund gains the entirety of the Stafford inheritance. This irritates Aubrey de Vere, Viscount Beaumont and Warwick, as Edmund’s wealth and influence now outweighs his.

1468, a betrothal between Richard, Duke of Gloucester and Eleanor of Viseu is arranged. The marriage is set to take place in 1472 - when Eleanor is 14. George, Duke of Bedford is also growing more discontented with Edward. He knows he doesn’t have much of a chance at the crown - with other Yorkist males in front of him - but sets his sights on wanting Edmund’s place as Edward’s most trusted advisor. He begins to attempt to sow seeds of doubt in Edward’s head about Edmund, and turns to his father-in-law Warwick for support. Warwick himself is also discontent with Edward’s reliance on Edmund - and with the similarly irritated Viscount Beaumont, Aubrey de Vere and George, Duke of Bedford he begins to plot.

So, by 1468 the Yorkist family tree (only including the most relevant) is:

Edward IV m. Marie of Brittany
[1] stillborn son (1463)
[2] Edward, Prince of Wales (1465-)
[3] Mary of York (1467-)

Edmund, Duke of Clarence and Buckingham m. Anne Stafford
[1] Richard, Earl of Rutland (1464-)
{miscarriage (girl), 1467}
[2] Thomas, Earl of Stafford (146:cool:

George, Duke of Bedford m. Isabel Neville
[1] Joan of Bedford (1467-)

Margaret of York m. Charles the Bold
 
1466, after the death of Isabella of Bourbon in 1465 and almost a year of mourning, Edward IV begins to look into a marriage between his sister Margaret and Charles the Bold. With England already having an alliance with Brittany, with Burgundy’s anti-French ideals and with Edward in this TL not interested in a French alliance it means that the marriage is done in 1466. Louis XI, as he does historically, tries to prevent the marriage from taking place but does not succeed. The idea of betrothing Mary of Burgundy to Richard, Duke of Gloucester is brought up but nothing comes to frustration. With Louis XI beginning to support Margaret of Anjou more actively (such as outlawing trade between the English and the Northern Coast of France to damage the English economy), Edward begins to branch out to look for more foreign support. Edmund proposed an Iberian match for Richard, Duke of Gloucester; the Council begin to look towards Portugal and Eleanor of Viseu is recommended. As she is a cousin of a King, and a second daughter at that, Eleanor of Viseu does not necessarily need a King or a second son. The match is proposed to Portugal and they consider it - somewhat resistant due to the future King of Portugal’s fondness towards Eleanor.

1467, Edward passes an act that deprives the two other Stafford girls (Katherine and Joanna) of the inheritance - giving it all to his brother; Edmund. The act bans any person who has committed treasonous acts from inheriting money, lands or titles via their wives. The marriages of Katherine and Joanna are to Aubrey de Vere and Viscount Beaumont, both who were Lancastrian supports who (I am assuming) fought at Towton, which took place after Edward IV was proclaimed King - therefore making fighting there (or just supporting the Lancastrian with money) treasonous. As a result, Edmund gains the entirety of the Stafford inheritance. This irritates Aubrey de Vere, Viscount Beaumont and Warwick, as Edmund’s wealth and influence now outweighs his.

1468, a betrothal between Richard, Duke of Gloucester and Eleanor of Viseu is arranged. The marriage is set to take place in 1472 - when Eleanor is 14. George, Duke of Bedford is also growing more discontented with Edward. He knows he doesn’t have much of a chance at the crown - with other Yorkist males in front of him - but sets his sights on wanting Edmund’s place as Edward’s most trusted advisor. He begins to attempt to sow seeds of doubt in Edward’s head about Edmund, and turns to his father-in-law Warwick for support. Warwick himself is also discontent with Edward’s reliance on Edmund - and with the similarly irritated Viscount Beaumont, Aubrey de Vere and George, Duke of Bedford he begins to plot.

So, by 1468 the Yorkist family tree (only including the most relevant) is:

Edward IV m. Marie of Brittany
[1] stillborn son (1463)
[2] Edward, Prince of Wales (1465-)
[3] Mary of York (1467-)

Edmund, Duke of Clarence and Buckingham m. Anne Stafford
[1] Richard, Earl of Rutland (1464-)
{miscarriage (girl), 1467}
[2] Thomas, Earl of Stafford (146:cool:

George, Duke of Bedford m. Isabel Neville
[1] Joan of Bedford (1467-)

Margaret of York m. Charles the Bold

WTH? I should really better spell check my posts 😂 - that’s meant to say:

Mary of York (1467-)
 
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