WI: Easy Gothic War

trajen777

Banned
Yes
So halting it wasn't the mistake it was building it at all before your conquest spree was? If so that obvious

um I thought only the last Persian war really took away the power to influence the west. How did the ones before it also do that?
I would not have built at all.. When I said stop building the church .... I meant stop any of the construction not stop it part way.. Sorry for confusion
 

Thomas1195

Banned
We'll I would have built after the conqests
Well, instead of building the useless church, I would spend that money to build series of castles in Northern and Central Italy to defend against potential barbarian invasions from the North. Basically I am thinking about a Byzantine version of Maginot, and this was also Fulk Nerra's strategy to consolidate Anjou. When talking about main castles, we should think about Edward's castles in North Wales or Krak des Chevalier, which had at least two rings of stone wall. In Byzantine Empire, I think only Constantinople met such standard. Each main castle would be supported by dozens of smaller castles and walled watchtowers. This was one of many policies of William the Conqueror and his successors to consolidate his power in England and later Wales.

After fortifying Italy, we should do the same in the Adriatic coast and modern-day Bulgaria. Sofia, which is located at the crossroad of the Balkan region, would be strengthened by an additional ring of stone wall. Two additional castles should also be built near the city to protect it. The same thing should also be done with Thessalonika and cities in Egypt and the Holy Lands.

The fact that the Avars and Bulgars (Arabs' allies) had no clue of how to deal with the walls of Constantinople during the Arab siege of the city illustrated the need for large specialized castles similar to Krak des Chevalier to deal with barbarians, especially those in Europe: Avars, Lombards, Bulgars, Slavs. Actually, these military castles would be tougher nuts to crack than walled cities, because most would be built on elevated ground.
 
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trajen777

Banned
Well, instead of building the useless church, I would spend that money to build series of castles in Northern and Central Italy to defend against potential barbarian invasions from the North. Basically I am thinking about a Byzantine version of Maginot, and this was also Fulk Nerra's strategy to consolidate Anjou. When talking about main castles, we should think about Edward's castles in North Wales or Krak des Chevalier, which had at least two rings of stone wall. In Byzantine Empire, I think only Constantinople met such standard. Each main castle would be supported by dozens of smaller castles and walled watchtowers. This was one of many policies of William the Conqueror and his successors to consolidate his power in England and later Wales.

After fortifying Italy, we should do the same in the Adriatic coast and modern-day Bulgaria. Sofia, which is located at the crossroad of the Balkan region, would be strengthened by an additional ring of stone wall. Two additional castles should also be built near the city to protect it. The same thing should also be done with Thessalonika and cities in Egypt and the Holy Lands.

The fact that the Avars and Bulgars (Arabs' allies) had no clue of how to deal with the walls of Constantinople during the Arab siege of the city illustrated the need for large specialized castles similar to Krak des Chevalier to deal with barbarians, especially those in Europe: Avars, Lombards, Bulgars, Slavs. Actually, these military castles would be tougher nuts to crack than walled cities, because most would be built on elevated ground.

Actually He did do this. Many of the crusaders came back with fortification ideas from the Byzantines. Here is a good review of the forts / fortifications / and lines built (like what you are talking about) http://byzantinemilitary.blogspot.com/2014/08/the-danube-limes-protecting-roman.html

"The Byzantines struggled for centuries to maintain anything like a recognizable Balkan border. Invading tribes from Central Asia were constantly pouring over the Danube River and conquering Roman territory all the way down into Greece and up to the walls of Constantinople itself.he significant testimony of Procopius concerning the renovation and reinforcement of the Danubian frontier has been confirmed in its entirety by our recent archaeological research.

Procopius paid considerable attention to construction work on the Iron Gate frontier (limes) and provided at times rather detailed information about the former Roman frontier.
The fortresses can be divided typographically into the following groups:
  1. Renovated Roman auxiliary and other minor forts.
  2. Renovated late Roman burgus – forts (from the Diocletian and Constantine periods).
  3. New early Byzantine forts built around renovated late Roman burgus-forts.
  4. Completely new early Byzantine forts"
Examples :
11unesco-limes-germany.jpg


11novae.gif


11Limes1-345x460.jpg
 

Thomas1195

Banned
Actually He did do this. Many of the crusaders came back with fortification ideas from the Byzantines. Here is a good review of the forts / fortifications / and lines built (like what you are talking about) http://byzantinemilitary.blogspot.com/2014/08/the-danube-limes-protecting-roman.html

"The Byzantines struggled for centuries to maintain anything like a recognizable Balkan border. Invading tribes from Central Asia were constantly pouring over the Danube River and conquering Roman territory all the way down into Greece and up to the walls of Constantinople itself.he significant testimony of Procopius concerning the renovation and reinforcement of the Danubian frontier has been confirmed in its entirety by our recent archaeological research.

Procopius paid considerable attention to construction work on the Iron Gate frontier (limes) and provided at times rather detailed information about the former Roman frontier.
The fortresses can be divided typographically into the following groups:
  1. Renovated Roman auxiliary and other minor forts.
  2. Renovated late Roman burgus – forts (from the Diocletian and Constantine periods).
  3. New early Byzantine forts built around renovated late Roman burgus-forts.
  4. Completely new early Byzantine forts"
Examples :
11unesco-limes-germany.jpg


11novae.gif


11Limes1-345x460.jpg
Well, when I talked about castles, I thought about giant stuffs like Krak des Chevalier or North Wale castles or something similar. Fortifications like those above should only have supporting role for walled cities as well as big specialized castles. Giant castles would be tougher nuts to crack than walled cities because they required fewer men (maybe even less than a thousand) to operate and defend, and they were normally built on high elevated ground. Dozens of large castles, supported by hundreds of smaller fortresses and fortified barracks, would make an impregnable defense system. Without huge castles, the system would be worthless.

I remembered that the Crusaders actually built large castles like Kerak or Krak des Chevalier. They only fell because of newer siege weapons like counterweight trebuchets, which did not exist during Justinian era.

The likes of Lombards, Bulgars and Avars should not have wrecked havoc in the Balkan and Adriatic Coast if the regions were as well-fortified as OTL Crusader States.
 
um I thought only the last Persian war really took away the power to influence the west. How did the ones before it also do that?
Khorsau's War was certainly the most devastating on this regard : it's why I proposed a shortened war after Marcian, because it's really at the VIIth century that we see a rarefaction of Roman goods and gold in the West (mostly at the benefit of Franks). It doesn't mean that the previous, long, war didn't have an effect, but you're essentially right.
 
Well, instead of building the useless church, I would spend that money to build series of castles in Northern and Central Italy to defend against potential barbarian invasions from the North. Basically I am thinking about a Byzantine version of Maginot, and this was also Fulk Nerra's strategy to consolidate Anjou. When talking about main castles, we should think about Edward's castles in North Wales or Krak des Chevalier, which had at least two rings of stone wall. In Byzantine Empire, I think only Constantinople met such standard. Each main castle would be supported by dozens of smaller castles and walled watchtowers. This was one of many policies of William the Conqueror and his successors to consolidate his power in England and later Wales.

After fortifying Italy, we should do the same in the Adriatic coast and modern-day Bulgaria. Sofia, which is located at the crossroad of the Balkan region, would be strengthened by an additional ring of stone wall. Two additional castles should also be built near the city to protect it. The same thing should also be done with Thessalonika and cities in Egypt and the Holy Lands.

The fact that the Avars and Bulgars (Arabs' allies) had no clue of how to deal with the walls of Constantinople during the Arab siege of the city illustrated the need for large specialized castles similar to Krak des Chevalier to deal with barbarians, especially those in Europe: Avars, Lombards, Bulgars, Slavs. Actually, these military castles would be tougher nuts to crack than walled cities, because most would be built on elevated ground.
Um this is the sixth century and Constantinople church just burned down. You have to replace and it's has to be as or grander then the last of pepole and the church will freak
Khorsau's War was certainly the most devastating on this regard : it's why I proposed a shortened war after Marcian, because it's really at the VIIth century that we see a rarefaction of Roman goods and gold in the West (mostly at the benefit of Franks). It doesn't mean that the previous, long, war didn't have an effect, but you're essentially right.
what wars before the last Persian war really drain that much reasources though?
 
I agree with the importance of Hagia Sophia. Piety was such an integral part of the character of Byzantine society, and was a critical pillar of soft power.
 
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