Is it possible for the Papal territory be only on Rome or the Vatican city in the Middle Ages?
WI: Earlier Vatican City
- Thread starter kasumigenx
- Start date
Not sure. The idea that the Pope had the "papal states" only dates from Pepin, but Latium was under papal rule to some extent earlier.
If Italy remains under secure Roman (Byzantine) control, this might happen over time, just by virtue of the pope's secular power being nonexistent.
You need something like that for this to happen.
If Italy remains under secure Roman (Byzantine) control, this might happen over time, just by virtue of the pope's secular power being nonexistent.
You need something like that for this to happen.
I think the Hohenstauffens can do that as well, I think that is why they offered the crown of Naples to Charles of Anjou.
Did you just say the Hohenstaufens offered Naples to Charles of Anjou?
1) Pope Innocent IV offered the Crown of Sicily to Charles in 1252 after John Earl of Cornwall rejected it. King Louis VIII forbade it several times.
2) Pope Urban IV offered it again to Charles in 1262 when Manfred ascended/took the throne. This time Louis agreed since he felt Manfred was an usurper.
3) It took an army, some luck, some money, and a 3rd Pope Clement IV who was a previous family adviser for Charles to win the Kingdom in 1266. And then he lost the island of Sicily in 1282 to Peter III of Aragon.
4) The Popes's offers included an expansion of powers for the Church rather than a reduction.
Ok Rant over:
A possibility for a reduction in the Papal Lands would be for Manfred to be successful in maintaining Sicily.
Then have some subsequent Popes to try again only to be defeated again before a Sicilian sympathiser becomes Pope.
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Did you just say the Hohenstaufens offered Naples to Charles of Anjou?
1) Pope Innocent IV offered the Crown of Sicily to Charles in 1252 after John Earl of Cornwall rejected it. King Louis VIII forbade it several times.
2) Pope Urban IV offered it again to Charles in 1262 when Manfred ascended/took the throne. This time Louis agreed since he felt Manfred was an usurper.
3) It took an army, some luck, some money, and a 3rd Pope Clement IV who was a previous family adviser for Charles to win the Kingdom in 1266. And then he lost the island of Sicily in 1282 to Peter III of Aragon.
4) The Popes's offers included an expansion of powers for the Church rather than a reduction.
The they I referred is the pope or the catholic church.