WI: Earlier barbed wire?

Barb wire made fencing cheaper and animal husbandry easier. It also provided a way to mark one's property with ease.

In OTL, it was patented in 1867. What if it was invented earlier?

How it would affect history if, say, the Romans came up with a similar idea? Is it even possible?

How early could barb wire be produced, and how could it affect history?
 
How early. Probably Roman times. How early, cheaply enough to be thrown around in great quantities, - not till about, oh, say 1860. At any rate, once steel wire became cheap and available large scale.

Once the wire is available, designing a machine to wrap the barbed bits around a carrier wire isn't that hard. Pre steam age versions could be cranked by hand, and the barbs sharpened with files. But it needs a LOT of steel wire. Expensive, very expensive.

Prior to the opening up of the American west for ranching, the main use would have been in fortifications.

The Romans would have loved the stuff, put up a barbed wire fence round the Castrum, take it down next morning.
 
Copper would work , but the expense would be horrendous.

Soft iron, not well. Maybe if erected on an engineered framework, but that rather defeats the idea.

Both soft iron and copper could fairly easily be cut by a steel axe or sword.
 
Copper would work , but the expense would be horrendous.

Soft iron, not well. Maybe if erected on an engineered framework, but that rather defeats the idea.

Both soft iron and copper could fairly easily be cut by a steel axe or sword.

What about an animal? That's the idea of barbed wire, anyways.
 
I remember reading (somewhere, no idea where) of earlier ideas based around iron nails driven through thin strips of wooden lathe.

Also nasty to run up against, but very slow and expensive to fabricate.

The break through with barbed wire wasn't the idea of a string of sharp pointy things, but rather the ability to churn long lengths out quickly and cheaply, so anyone who wanted could throw coils of it here there and anywhere.

The quick cheap manufacture bit requires steel.
 
What about an animal? That's the idea of barbed wire, anyways.

Que ? A barbed animal ?

Quite a few people used similar ideas based around thorn bushes, cactus spikes etc.

Trick if using it to coating animals, is the spikes have to be strong enough to penetrate tough animal hides, but tough enough not to readily break off and remain embedded in the animal, since that can lead to infections (assuming the idea is to keep valuable animals in, not predators or vermin out ).

Only steel wire works well for that .
 
I remember reading (somewhere, no idea where) of earlier ideas based around iron nails driven through thin strips of wooden lathe.

Also nasty to run up against, but very slow and expensive to fabricate.

The break through with barbed wire wasn't the idea of a string of sharp pointy things, but rather the ability to churn long lengths out quickly and cheaply, so anyone who wanted could throw coils of it here there and anywhere.

The quick cheap manufacture bit requires steel.

Damn, there goes the POD.
 
yeah, this really is one of those rare things where one can say that the evidence that it couldn't be done earlier, is the fact it wasn't done earlier.

Lots of people through the ages (not just Europeans) had the idea. But not the materials.
 
OTL Belgians and Germans used bramble bushes as defence against romans. A wider usage (as among the Cantabrians in EaH [shameless add mode of]) is still possible.
 
Anglo Saxon (and possibly ancient Briton) settlements were usually protected by a thorn fence.

The limitations of thorn, gorse etc are that it takes a long time to gather and erect, it's not readily movable, and it burns well.
 
Abatis is the general term for tree-branch/bramble obstacles used before barbed wire. It filled much the same niche, but has two notable disadvantages relative to barbed wire:

  • It's much bulkier and thus would usually have to be improvised from local materials rather than carried with you, which can be time consuming even if there are suitable materials available.
  • Abatis can be cleared by setting it on fire. Wire can't.
Abatis dates back at least to classical times. During the ACW era, it was sometime supplemented or replaced by nets of non-barbed wire (often spare wire intended for field telegraphs) that would trip an enemy soldier who tried running through it without looking where he was putting his feet.
 
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