WI during 9/11 both President and VP are incapacitated?

I was thinking yesterday WI during 9/11 President Bush is incapacitated from the attack (assuming he was somewhere near the terrorist attacks) and on the same time VP Cheney suffers a massive heart attack which incapacites him too?
With both President and Vice President alive but unable to take action what happens then? Dennis Hastert becomes acting President? And what happens next?
 
I was thinking yesterday WI during 9/11 President Bush is incapacitated from the attack (assuming he was somewhere near the terrorist attacks) and on the same time VP Cheney suffers a massive heart attack which incapacites him too?
With both President and Vice President alive but unable to take action what happens then? Dennis Hastert becomes acting President? And what happens next?

How much actual running of anything were they doing, as opposed to being kept informed? Watching the events unfold, it seemed very much as if all decisions were being made by those directly involved, whether Giuliani or the FAA rather than any real national government at all

I assume the military automatically went to high alert and ran their scheduled operations in defence of US assets whilst overseas assets got an immediate flash warning to up their security status to maximum

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
First of all hi Greywolf.... Nice to see u again after 7 months...

What about Dennis Hastert as acting President? I think he would be very moderate as an acting President... How would he reacted in such a case?
 
Interesting issues if they are incapacitated.

Contrary to what was implied in "The West Wing"and "Comander in Chief" it is by no means clear that the 25th Amendment applies if the Acting Presidnet would be someone other than a VP
 
Cant the cabinet issue a proclamation signed by all of its members and transmit the Presidential powers to whoever is next in line and not incapacitated?
 
Cant the cabinet issue a proclamation signed by all of its members and transmit the Presidential powers to whoever is next in line and not incapacitated?

The text of the 25th Amendment specifically details that "the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide" must notify the Speaker and President pro tem in writing that the President is incapable of serving. With the Vice President incapacitated as well, it seems constitutionally impossible to provide for an Acting Presidency at all.

The full text of the amendment, so people can reference it if needed:

US Constitution said:
1. In case of the removal of the President from office or of his death or resignation, the Vice President shall become President.

2. Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.

3. Whenever the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that he is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, and until he transmits to them a written declaration to the contrary, such powers and duties shall be discharged by the Vice President as Acting President.

4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.
 
IIRC the Secretary of Defense is the fallback commander-in-chief in cases of national emergency when they don't know who the head of state is, or where they are.

So, er, Acting President Donald Rumsfeld anyone?

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
IIRC the Secretary of Defense is the fallback commander-in-chief in cases of national emergency when they don't know who the head of state is, or where they are.

So, er, Acting President Donald Rumsfeld anyone?

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

was all of bush's cabinet confirmed by 9/11; i thought some of his people got hung up or had nomination problems in the senate?
 

Hyperion

Banned
Hastert is president with neither dispute nor contest.

Agreed. If Bush and Cheney are confirmed dead or otherwise out of it for the duration, the next person in line takes over, and that is Hastert.

Granted, given the circumstances on 9/11, it may take a day or so before he gets set up and brought up to speed on events, so for the next day or so things will devolve to local control.

I think a better 9/11 POD to look at, what would have happened had Rumsfeld and/or other top military or civilian Defense Department leaders been killed or incapacitated at the Pentagon.
 
Agreed. If Bush and Cheney are confirmed dead or otherwise out of it for the duration, the next person in line takes over, and that is Hastert.

Granted, given the circumstances on 9/11, it may take a day or so before he gets set up and brought up to speed on events, so for the next day or so things will devolve to local control.

I think a better 9/11 POD to look at, what would have happened had Rumsfeld and/or other top military or civilian Defense Department leaders been killed or incapacitated at the Pentagon.

I think there is a legal gap if Bush and Cheney are incapacitated and not dead.
If i remember correctly 25th amendement stipulates that in case of presidential incapacitation a document is drawn signed by the cabinet and VP which transmits presidential powers to the VP until the President recovers or dies.
But without VP's signature is the document legitimised to transmit presidential powers to the Speaker?
 
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