WI Duke Siemowit IV of Płock becomes king of Poland

Siemowit was a relatively skilled politician and a candidate for Polish throne after the death of Ludwik Andewagen (Anjou) in 1382. What if manages to marry Jadwiga and secure Polish throne for himself?

Some random thoughts, as a basis for further discussion:
- Most far reaching consequence is no Polish-Lithuanian union. Instead only a short-term military alliance against the Teutonic Order.
- What happens to Lithuania? Who and when Christianizes Lithuania? Lithuania still has some potential and had it focused exclusively on eastern politics it might gather enough Russian lands to counter the eventual expansion of Muscovy. Or would it succumb to triple pressure of Teutons, Muscovy and Tatars?
- What happens to Poland? Without Lithuania it becomes relatively small in terms of territory (no Wolhynia, no Podolia, no Ruthenia, ect.) and thus much less emphasis is put on eastern politics. Will szlachta still gain their privileges?
- Teutonic Knights defeat is exploited earlier and more completely, as there is no need to preserve common Polish-Lithuanian enemy to help unite those two states (as arguably was the case with Jagiellonian dynasty)
 
Originally posted by Magnificate
Some random thoughts, as a basis for further discussion:
- Most far reaching consequence is no Polish-Lithuanian union. Instead only a short-term military alliance against the Teutonic Order.
- What happens to Lithuania? Who and when Christianizes Lithuania? Lithuania still has some potential and had it focused exclusively on eastern politics it might gather enough Russian lands to counter the eventual expansion of Muscovy. Or would it succumb to triple pressure of Teutons, Muscovy and Tatars?
- What happens to Poland? Without Lithuania it becomes relatively small in terms of territory (no Wolhynia, no Podolia, no Ruthenia, ect.) and thus much less emphasis is put on eastern politics. Will szlachta still gain their privileges?
- Teutonic Knights defeat is exploited earlier and more completely, as there is no need to preserve common Polish-Lithuanian enemy to help unite those two states (as arguably was the case with Jagiellonian dynasty)

I think Lithuania had no choice but to convert to christianity. The threat of the Teutonic Order was great, and accepting christianity gave Lithuanians at least a chance to repell it diplomaticly. As pagans they had no chance at all, since nobody would have listened to them, and the Order would have been able to keep conquering Lithuania under the banner of crusade. Besides, Christianity wasn't unknown to them - a big part of Great Duchy of Lithuania was today's Belarus and Russia, at that time mostly Orthodox Christian. However, accepting Orthodoxy wouldn't have stopped the Order - to the Catholic Church there was no difference between fighting pagans or fighting heretics. Also, Christianity (in both versions) offered a chance of being part of European civilization: it offered scripture, better organization and administration, culture, art, science, written law - all those thing were very valuable to any ruler.
And last but not least - Lithuanians had to convert if they seriously thought about strategic alliance with Poland. Poland simply couldn't fight the Teutonic Order (a religious order, seen by many as knights of Chist) hand in hand with pagans. Church reaction could be only one - excommunication of Polish king and interdict on Poland. However, it was possible to defend even freshly baptismed Christians from the knights who were overzealous or simply abused their privileges.
After elimination of Teutonic threat (if that had happened) Poland and Lithuania would have probably remained on friendly terms, interested in expantion in opposite directions. Lithuania would serve as a shield potecting Poland from Tatars and Muscovia, Poland would guard Lithuanians from the west. Piast dynasty was more interested in regainign territories from the times of Boleslaus the Wry-mouth, especially Silesia and Pomerania. Lithuanians would most probably concentrate on securing their eastern border.
Another thing, Poland even without Lithuania wasn't that small - especially if you count Polish vassals - Masovia, Podolia, and western Wohlyn.
As far as privileges of szlachta goes, the first step was already made - Louis d'Anjou secured Polish throne for his daughter Jadwiga by giving Polish knights the privilege of Koszyce (Kosice, Kassau). However, it was only one step - if Siemowit had a heir with Jadwiga, he wouldn't have needed to give more priveleges, cause he (she) would have had every right to become his successor on Polish throne. And even if Jadwiga died without giving Siemowit a heir, his children from others marriages would still have been Piasts, obvious candidates for Polish crown.
A word of caution, though - do not treat the Order's defeat as certain and unavoidable. While Poland and Lithuania together were stronger than the Order, it doesn't mean the Teutonic Knights had to loose. The war might have lasted much longer. Personally, I believe the Poles and Lithuanians would have won such a war, but you never know...
 
After elimination of Teutonic threat (if that had happened) Poland and Lithuania would have probably remained on friendly terms, interested in expantion in opposite directions. Lithuania would serve as a shield potecting Poland from Tatars and Muscovia, Poland would guard Lithuanians from the west. Piast dynasty was more interested in regainign territories from the times of Boleslaus the Wry-mouth, especially Silesia and Pomerania. Lithuanians would most probably concentrate on securing their eastern border.

Actually, after eliminating Teutonic Order I think that relations between Poland and Lithuania would quickly cool down. There was an ongoing dissagreement about Volyn. So, I believe that in the end there'd be a number of conflict between Poland and Lithuania nad sooner or later an alliance between Poland and Muscovy, ending with Lithuania being divide between them - maybe only surviving as a buffer state not much bigger than modern day Lithuania...

As far as privileges of szlachta goes, the first step was already made - Louis d'Anjou secured Polish throne for his daughter Jadwiga by giving Polish knights the privilege of Koszyce (Kosice, Kassau). However, it was only one step - if Siemowit had a heir with Jadwiga, he wouldn't have needed to give more priveleges, cause he (she) would have had every right to become his successor on Polish throne. And even if Jadwiga died without giving Siemowit a heir, his children from others marriages would still have been Piasts, obvious candidates for Polish crown.

Also, ITTL Siemowit and his descendants wouldn't have to bribe Polish nobles to keep on the throne, unlike Vladislav Jagiello, so the king's treasury would stay definately more filled...
 
Originally posted by Tizoc
Actually, after eliminating Teutonic Order I think that relations between Poland and Lithuania would quickly cool down. There was an ongoing dissagreement about Volyn. So, I believe that in the end there'd be a number of conflict between Poland and Lithuania nad sooner or later an alliance between Poland and Muscovy, ending with Lithuania being divide between them - maybe only surviving as a buffer state not much bigger than modern day Lithuania...
You may be right, although I don't believe that the Order would have been eliminated so quickly - IOTL it took Poland and Lithuania quite some time. OTOH, in case of decisive Polish-Lithuanian victory ca. 1400 (or later) Siemowit might have force the Order to accept much harsher conditions of peace. IOTL Jagiello couldn't be too severe, since for European public opinion he was still very freshly baptismed ex-pagan. Siemowit, coming from good, christian dynasty, wouldn't have had such a problem.
If the Order had remained, there would be no conflict between Poland and Lithuania - Poland could have simply paid Lithuanians for Volhyn using money pressed from the Order (ransoms, reparations, contributions...etc.). At the beginning of XVI century Lithuania would have been too busy with Tatars and Muscovia to mess with Poland. And Poles would have been quite happy with their Lithuanian shield. Some more adventurous knights might have gone there as volunteers to support Lithuanians in fight against pagans and Orthodox heretics.
 
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