WI: Dueling never outlawed?

Uriel

Ever heard of the "Mensur" - sword duels with a number of provisions to avoid serious injuries?

Still practiced by a minority of German students.
 

Dialga

Banned
So, what did bring and end to dueling in the old South? I mean, why is it that nowadays, when a Southerner asks you to duel, it's with Yu-Gi-Oh! decks across the table at the local comic book shop and not pistols at 10 paces at the field of honor?

This has always puzzled me. The research I have done seems to indicate it had something to do with the ACW, but whether it had to do with revulsion over the sheer carnage of the conflict or something else entirely, I do not know. So, could someone enlighten me?
 

Herzen's love-child

Dialga said:
So, what did bring and end to dueling in the old South? I mean, why is it that nowadays, when a Southerner asks you to duel, it's with Yu-Gi-Oh! decks across the table at the local comic book shop and not pistols at 10 paces at the field of honor?

This has always puzzled me. The research I have done seems to indicate it had something to do with the ACW, but whether it had to do with revulsion over the sheer carnage of the conflict or something else entirely, I do not know. So, could someone enlighten me?
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The Southern "Culture of honor" died out slowly after the ACW but persisted to at least the end of the 19th Century. Sounds like what you suggest and generational changes in behavior. Northern institutionalized "rule of law" making inroads after the CW, too.
But not completely:
In a relatively recent study on Southern attitudes toward violence (Nisbett & Cohen, 1996)., it was shown that employers in the South were more likely to be sympathetic than employers in the North towards a fictional applicant who explained in a letter with his job application that he had been charged with manslaughter for responding to an insult, accepting a challenge to a fight, and accidentally killing his challenger.
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Dialga

Banned
Herzen's love-child said:
The Southern "Culture of honor" died out slowly after the ACW but persisted to at least the end of the 19th Century. Sounds like what you suggest and generational changes in behavior. Northern institutionalized "rule of law" making inroads after the CW, too.
Click to expand...

So, why was Northern rule of law so slow to establish itself in the old South? More of the same?
 

Dialga

Banned
Huh. This is what I get for not doing my research near enough. The Genocide (which is where Herzog's love child seems to have gotten the quote re: manslaughter and employment) seems to suggest that the rise of modern banking seems to be the sole factor in ending dueling in the South. (That is weird. :confused:)

So, what prevented modern banks from popping up in the antebellum South in the first place?
 
Lemon flavoured

Lemon flavoured

tallthinkev said:
If dueling came back, could it lead to, trail by combat, comming back as well?
There was a case about 10 years ago when a bloke wanted to fight a champion, put forward by the DVLA because of a motoring fine. That whould have been great to watch.
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It would have been amusing, but if the DVLA had agreed, I can imagine their champion being someone along the lines of Carl Froch.
 

Herzen's love-child

Dialga said:
Huh. This is what I get for not doing my research near enough. The Genocide (which is where Herzog's love child seems to have gotten the quote re: manslaughter and employment) seems to suggest that the rise of modern banking seems to be the sole factor in ending dueling in the South. (That is weird. :confused:)

So, what prevented modern banks from popping up in the antebellum South in the first place?
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NO, actually Wiki of a study. The book you bring up apparently used it, too. Interesting supposed agent of change but the book's conclusion seems more than a little simplistic.
 

Herzen's love-child

Dialga said:
"The Genocide" = AH.com-slang for Wikipedia.

Just for clarification.
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I'm a Jew. I don't use the word "Genocide" so frivolously.
I also only quoted an observation of a specific study. I wasn't endorsing the conclusions of possibly several different people piecing together an entry on Wikipedia.
 

Herzen's love-child

Dialga said:
Oops. My bad. Old AH.com habits die hard, I guess.

Anyhoo, why is it that modern banks never gained a foothold in the antebellum South?
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Not my area of expertise but perhaps this might be a start:
http://www.westga.edu/~bquest/2000/antebellum.html

I think that the assumption of the above statement is too general. Obviously there were banks in the old South. There seemed to be mistrust of banks in some quarters of the South but the same could be said of some folk in the North.
 

BigWillyG

Uriel said:
Ever heard of the "Mensur" - sword duels with a number of provisions to avoid serious injuries?

Still practiced by a minority of German students.
Click to expand...

I was thinking of Mensur. Is it legal or just tolerated today?
Making that or something similar outside of German language countries and dueling could evolve into that without ever being made illegal.
 

Herzen's love-child

Both Legalized and tolerated, I believe. The Nazis banned it but the ban was lifted in the 50s. It is even sanctioned by the state church!
Fancy a ritualized scarring? :D
 

BigWillyG

Herzen's love-child said:
Both Legalized and tolerated, I believe. The Nazis banned it but the ban was lifted in the 50s. It is even sanctioned by the state church!
Fancy a ritualized scarring? :D
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Cool. Keep swords the main dueling weapon rather than pistols in Britain and the US and have a Mensur level of ritual could keep dueling around. Far fewer deaths takes away a big part of the reason for banning it.
 

strummist

PoeFacedKilla said:
No. Russians duel by duel weilding AA-12s at 10 paces.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOoUVeyaY_8
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True Russians use these, at 20 feet, in a swimming pool.

nprdv_02.jpg
 
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