WI: Different occupation zones in Germany post WW2

James G

Gone Fishin'
I'm thinking of a creating a short Vignette concerning a snapshot of the implications of different Allies occupation zones in Germany after World War Two.
The British-Commonwealth in the northwest, the Americans in the south, the French in the southwest and the Soviets in the east would all stay the same. Those were political but also logistical reasons.
However, the difference would be Schleswig-Holstein being in the Soviet zone and Thüringen being either British or American or split between those two.
Hamburg would be in the British zone.
My question is when and where, and more importantly how, those OTL zones were drawn up in the first place pre occupation? Who made the decisions and on what basis of past the initial general geographic split between the different Allies of World War Two?
In addition, I guess too, is such a small change - but one with big future implications for the Cold War: Warsaw Pact on the North Sea, no Fulda Gap - really plausible?
Any ideas would be helpful.
 
Last edited:
Shift Canadian occupation forces to the Friesland Coast, the area they conquered in 1945.
Secondly, make Canadian occupation forces much larger, as a Commonwealth duty, freeing up bankrupt Britain to send more troops to quell rebellious natives in other colonies.

The Canadian role would also include rebuilding the Dutch Army. Given Canadian soldiers sympathies, I suspect that a few thousand tons of German-made rails, cement, etc.would disappear towards the Dutch border with no explanation.
 

James G

Gone Fishin'
Shift Canadian occupation forces to the Friesland Coast, the area they conquered in 1945.
Secondly, make Canadian occupation forces much larger, as a Commonwealth duty, freeing up bankrupt Britain to send more troops to quell rebellious natives in other colonies.

The Canadian role would also include rebuilding the Dutch Army. Given Canadian soldiers sympathies, I suspect that a few thousand tons of German-made rails, cement, etc.would disappear towards the Dutch border with no explanation.

That's an idea that I like and I think I will use.
Thank you.

This will probably butterfly away a lot of German porn. ;-)

Ah, yes, Flensburg. Hamburg has always been seen as a liberal German city so maybe that will take the place of German's porn capital.
 

oberdada

Gone Fishin'
Don't forget about: Soviet Helgoland naval base

Walter Ulbrichts little beach cabin on Sylt

and the Wall between Hamburg and Norderstedt
 

James G

Gone Fishin'
Not sure about Heligoland: Britain might have something to say!
I like the idea with a coastal resort on the North Sea for the East German political elite like they had one OTL on the Baltic.
In addition, keeping Hamburg with what would later be West Germany would mean a Hamburg Wall along with a Berlin Wall too.
 
  • The Danes occupy Schleswig-Holstein
  • The Poles occupy Thuringia and Saxony
  • The Czechs occupy Bavaria or at least some of it.
 

oberdada

Gone Fishin'
Please don't be angry, but I just can't resist that pun:

And regarding that Norderstedt Wall:

There was this moment, when Kennedy visited Hamburg in 1963, making his famous speach "today [...] take pride in the words: 'Ich bin ein Hamburger' "

He is still remember foundly for that in Germany today, but historians belief that it made him loose in '64; US citizens where just not ready for a president claiming to be a hamburger!
 
You know, I really can't see anyone being happy about Soviets on the North Sea. Although maybe if the Allies had punched through into Czechia and Prague is also a divided city?
 

Cook

Banned
My question is when and where, and more importantly how, those OTL zones were drawn up in the first place pre occupation? Who made the decisions and on what basis of past the initial general geographic split between the different Allies of World War Two?

The decisions were largely made at Yalta in February 1945. I say largely because it was a process of evolution; the British and Soviets agreed in early 1942, that East Prussia would be divided between the Soviets and Poland, and there were discussions about the division of Germany at the Tehran Conference in December '43. The westward movement of Poland at the expense of Germany, to compensate for the loss of territory to the Soviets in '39, was also finalised at Yalta.

...the difference would be Schleswig-Holstein being in the Soviet zone...

Giving the Soviets Schleswig-Holstein effectively means giving them Denmark. That, and the Kiel Canal, gives them access to the North Sea and I can imagine Churchill would regard that as the type of put with which he would not up.
 
Last edited:
Another avenue of approach is to have some infighting among the allies over the occupation zone sizes and British and US forces end up keeping all areas conquered by them, so roughly one third of what became East Germany going to them, with Leipzig, for instance in the enlarged US zone. No West Berlin in this scenario as Soviets take all of Berlin as a reprisal.
 
Another avenue of approach is to have some infighting among the allies over the occupation zone sizes and British and US forces end up keeping all areas conquered by them, so roughly one third of what became East Germany going to them, with Leipzig, for instance in the enlarged US zone. No West Berlin in this scenario as Soviets take all of Berlin as a reprisal.

I'm pretty sure Stalin would be sorta ok with uti possidetis, keeping all of Berlin in exchange for the border areas in the planned Soviet zone handed to the Allies. I mean, he questioned why the WAllies would even adhere to the OTL zones knowing he can overrun West Berlin on a single order.
 
Top