WI Different Battle of Kursk

It occurred to me that the battle of Kursk could have gone much differently, resulting in a different eastern front. It was delayed several times to wait for new weapons such as Tigers and Panthers and also because of Hitler's interference (he didn't like the plan), enabling the Russians to construct a vast network of layered defences. What if the Germans had attacked straight away or had done Manstein's backhand blow. Or what if - seeing intelligence reports on vast Soviet defences - Hitler decides to cancel Operation Citadel alltogether and remain on the defence and also freeing troops to aid in the defence of Italy when the Allies land in Sicily?
 
Longer World War II, that is about it. After Stalingrad, the Germans were not in a position to achieve any sort of victory over the Red Army. It would probably result in a Soviet winter offensive along the southern front to correct the damage the Germans had done, with less major gains than were seen IOTL thanks to the larger number of German troops around to defend the line. You might delay the Russians from entering Poland until 1944 and maybe Germany until 1945 at best, though it won't change the outcome.
 
But is has been implied on this forum that Stalin was considering a negotiated peace as late as 1943 (dunno if that's true). Would this be enough and how would the western allies respond.
 
I can't see it being enough for a negotiated peace. Remember the German Army was not what it was during 1941-1942. By this time the Soviets had gained a huge numerical lead over the Germans; Stalin would not let this go to waste. Even if the Germans had closed the salient, it is just as likely Soviet forces would have broken out in large enough numbers to salvage some sort of partial victory. IMO all a victory at Kursk would do for the Germans is prolong the war by a year at best, the German army just did not have the strength at this time to knock back the Red Army enough to force them to the negotiating table.
 
The Soviets sought a settlement with Germany before Kursk, based on the 1939 borders, and it was rejected.

Had Kursk achieved its objectives in destroying the central Soviet armies and breaking through to encircle Moscow from the South, STAVKA would have been more keen than ever for a peace, but the Germans even more determined to win outright.

No change to the overall result IMO.
 
The Soviets sought a settlement with Germany before Kursk, based on the 1939 borders, and it was rejected.

Had Kursk achieved its objectives in destroying the central Soviet armies and breaking through to encircle Moscow from the South, STAVKA would have been more keen than ever for a peace, but the Germans even more determined to win outright.

No change to the overall result IMO.

Duh-Hey?

Take Moscow? Even if the none of the Soviet soldiers in the Kursk-Bulge were to ever make it out/fight on with partisans (which would be pretty ASB, given how many did exactly that even as early as 1941), the Germans chance of taking Moscow at this point would be nil.

I even have my doubts of the Germans being capable of permanently cutting off and destroying the Kursk-bulge given that the reserve military force that was the Steppe Army Front positioned well East of the German-route-of-advance was not only even more powerful of then the forces inside the Kursk Salient, but would also be in an absolutely excellent position to smash through what would certainly be overextended German flanks at multiple points(given that the Germans would also have to guard against the still formidable military forces inside any Kursk cauldron as well).

Even worse, the Germans had absolutely no idea that the Steppe Front existed.

The most likely scenario for a German Kursk Breakthrough would be that the Germans take Kursk, cut-off the forces inside the salient... then promptly find their breakthrough forces surrounded and suffer even worse casualties then OTL.

As a matter of fact, an outright German victory at Kursk appears to me to be the least likely of scenarios.
 
Longer World War II, that is about it. After Stalingrad, the Germans were not in a position to achieve any sort of victory over the Red Army. It would probably result in a Soviet winter offensive along the southern front to correct the damage the Germans had done, with less major gains than were seen IOTL thanks to the larger number of German troops around to defend the line. You might delay the Russians from entering Poland until 1944 and maybe Germany until 1945 at best, though it won't change the outcome.

I'm not even sure if that would happen. The Germans might have sent more forces to western Europe if they were doing a little better on the eastern front. But with Allied air supremacy, that wouldn't necessarily have slowed the western Allies down significantly after D-Day. It certainly wouldn't have slowed them down much.
 
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