WI De Molay had found out about the arrests 1 mo before they happened

So the Templar Grand Master Jacques de Molay Finds out that King Philip IV of France was going to arrest the members of the Knights Templar , So he informs his members to fight the kings troops and put the kings rebellion down .
How would this change history ?
Could the Knights Templar taken France from King Philip IV for the moneys he owed them .
 

archaeogeek

Banned
No, they wouldn't have been in a position to demand France; however if they wanted to make it worse they could try. They had fairly little chance of surviving against the kingdom of France. Small order of knights vs major kingdom. Even within the limits of a feudal system they wouldn't have been able to do much on their own.
 
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I'm not sure the Templar Ordrer had enough military strength to resist the wrath of Philip IV of France. They sure had a lot of commanderies in France, but the French king had even more soldiers he could muster.

Philip IV the Fair is also the last of three greatest kings of the Direct Capetians in France (the other two being Philip II Augustus and Saint Louis IX) : he took a heavy part in reforming France and making it a modern state. He also made it one of the strongest power (if not the strongest) in Europe at the time. During the templars' trial OTL, he even managed to move the Papacy from Rome to Avignon.
Philip IV was also quite popular around that time as he made several reforms to weaken the power of the great nobles and allowed a certain number of bourgeois (to the anger of his barons, most notably his brother Charles of Valois) in his council like Enguerrand de Marigny.

Besides, the Templar order had started to lost popularity around those years. First, the crusades were no longer that much popular and there were few crusader holdings left in the East (The last crusader cities of the Holy Land fell during the Templars' trial).
Second, the order had turned into some sort of a huge bank. Philip IV was considered greedy by some, but he probably wasn't the only monarch in Europe who wished to have access to the Templars' richess.
Lastly, there were strange rumors against the templars (some propagated by Philip IV himself). They were accused of Heresy, Sodomy and of practicing strange rites.

If he was to learn about Philip IV's move against the Templars, the best thing Jacques de Mollay could do would be to flee France. And even that wouldn't be simple.
 
Lastly, there were strange rumors against the templars (some propagated by Philip IV himself). They were accused of Heresy, Sodomy and of practicing strange rites.
Investigated and found Baseless by the Papal Investigator. [recently released reprint of the Investigation.
This is why - Despite the long Investigation, The Templars were not worried.
 
DuQuense said:
Investigated and found Baseless by the Papal Investigator. [recently released reprint of the Investigation.
This is why - Despite the long Investigation, The Templars were not worried.

Yeah, but Philip IV didn't care much for the Pope's opinion. And it's not that easy to have a rumor quiet down.
Besides, in OTL, after the Templars admitted (under Torture) that they indeed practiced Heresy, Sodomy or strange rites, everyone started to believe those rumors.
 
With a small force pitted against a large one, it would make little sense for the Templars to try to take the French army on in the open field (not that many small forces haven't put themselves in similar positions). The Templars' advantages are (i) they are rich; (ii) they are organized, well trained and well-armed; and (iii) acording to the rules of this timeline, surprise. They have to use these.

To defeat Philip's plan, the best hope for the Templars is to strike hard and early, i.e., sieze the king, his sons and as many of his counsellors as they can. Having done so, they can and expose Philip's scheme to destroy them and show the world how he intended to fabricate the evidence. After that, the usual pattern would be to blame 'evil counsellors' for the scheme and execute them rather than king Philip himself.

Alternatively, the Templars can try to get out of the country with as much of their wealth as they can, but that wasn't the challenge.
 
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