WI De Gaulle in charge 1940

[Max Sinister]

I got the idea for this thread reading the diverse threads about the French and how the do in a war...

So, WI de Gaulle had been the overall commander of the French army when the nazis invaded? I'm sure that he'd done better than OTL commanders, he seems to have had the right attitude, the question is how good he'd done.

Would he have been able to stopp the Wehrmacht, leading to a prolonged war as in 1914? Would the French & Brits eventually have driven them out, liberating Benelux or even invading Germany? What would Italy have done? Would Hitler try to force them to declare war upon France? Would Stalin have used the opportunity if Germany and the Allies would still have a stalemate in the West in, say, 1943? Will the Allies fight Hitler together with Stalin or would they ally with Germany, fearing an over-mighty Stalin? Would Churchill ever come to power, or will writing a book about WW2 be everything he may do? And what will the US do? (Pearl Harbor may still happen, but with France being undefeated they shouldn't occupy Indochina as they did OTL...)

 

[Melvin Loh]

Italians vs France 1940

Just on the qn of Italy being persuaded to attack France in 1940- OTL Mussolini opportunistically invaded France in June just as the French were about to surrender, and his army got its butt royally kicked by the French alpine forces stationed in the south. There was a book I read on the 50th anniversary of the invasion of France, Then and Now, which provided a splendid analogy of France, although already being on the mat and being attacked by another assailant, still being able to get up and give Italy as that additional attacker a very bloody nose. Therefore, even if Italy does come in as Hitler orders, IMHO there's not all that much Mussolini's rable would be able to achieve against de Gaulle's already formidably-led French army.

 

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

It might have been too late by 1940 to save the situation because France would not have made the right arms purchases, but under a man like De Gaulle, who unlike Gamelin and Weygand understood that tyhe purpose of the army was to win wars, it's very possible the result would have been different. Although the German victory was shockingly fast, it was at great cost to the armored forces, and a more flexible and skilled defense may have ground the German offensive to a halt, and with British assistance, perhaps even a victory could have been gained.

 

[Norman]

My understanding of at least one of the problems the french had was that their military doctrine involved spreading tanks throughout their forces, rather than concentrating them. Further I thought that the tanks, although a little slower than the german taks, generally had better armor.

I also believe that one of the few military men that understood this problem was DeGaul.

If DeGaul had been in a position to dictate military doctrine, it is likely that the use that they would have not collapsed as they did.

 

[wkwillis]

Strange Victory/Strange Defeat

The French army collapsed because they left a section of their front defended by one division compose of elderly retirees. It was attacked by four German armored divisions and eight (IIRC) infantry divisions, and promptly collapsed, letting the Germans drive into the rear of the French. The French did not defend that one area because it was on the border with Luxemburg and that area of Luxemburg consisted of a bunch of hills with four roads through them, each at one point carved into the side of a cliff and just over a creek. One tank broken down could block each road and the French army naturally decided that no one in their right minds would attack there.
If De Gaulle had defended it inside Luxemburg then the Germans would have been bloodily repulsed and the war would have lasted a year or so before the Germans collapsed.
Anybody could have defended it by moving twenty miles into Luxemburg and blocking those roads.

 

[Brilliantlight]

Just on the qn of Italy being persuaded to attack France in 1940- OTL Mussolini opportunistically invaded France in June just as the French were about to surrender, and his army got its butt royally kicked by the French alpine forces stationed in the south. There was a book I read on the 50th anniversary of the invasion of France, Then and Now, which provided a splendid analogy of France, although already being on the mat and being attacked by another assailant, still being able to get up and give Italy as that additional attacker a very bloody nose. Therefore, even if Italy does come in as Hitler orders, IMHO there's not all that much Mussolini's rable would be able to achieve against de Gaulle's already formidably-led French army.

Remember that Italy had a hard time beating Ethiopia so beating the Italians was a walk in the park.