WI: Davinci tank and glider how could they have changed human theater of war?

What if the design for a tank and glider that De Vinci put forth has resulted in a much earlier introduction of these items onto the human threater of war.

Could that have changed Our human history? If Yes how?



/Fred

tank.gif
 
Actually, the tank was pretty workable, but it would have to be used on plains and fields. Not sutiable to Italy, but Russia, Poland, and other cavalry-focused places with good geography would be good battlefields. The glider... not so much.
 
Actually, the tank was pretty workable, but it would have to be used on plains and fields. Not sutiable to Italy, but Russia, Poland, and other cavalry-focused places with good geography would be good battlefields. The glider... not so much.

Which battles could you image would have changed in North Europa had the tank been developed 300 year earlier than in OTL?
 
There's a couple of problems with that tank. One is that, as drawn, the wheels will turn in opposite directions. Another is that, for as few people as would fit into it, the weight needed to provide effective armour would be enormous. So, slow speed, and don't use it on soft ground. And it couldn't really cross any sort of obstacles.

I've always wondered what these things offense was supposed to be.

As a p.s., the Hussites used war wagons very effictively, so i'm sure these could be used in some way.
 
There's a couple of problems with that tank. One is that, as drawn, the wheels will turn in opposite directions. Another is that, for as few people as would fit into it, the weight needed to provide effective armour would be enormous. So, slow speed, and don't use it on soft ground. And it couldn't really cross any sort of obstacles.

I've always wondered what these things offense was supposed to be.

As a p.s., the Hussites used war wagons very effictively, so i'm sure these could be used in some way.
Yes, this was all discussed (and I believe we're all taking the info from) that Da Vinci BBC program (and it discussed how Da Vinci made mistakes on purpose so no one could copy/use them). Apparently, installing small cannon would be very deadly, as the shots would hit the knee and cause a LOT of disruption.
Also (I don't think it was discussed in the program) think of the terrible effect on the enemy's morale. Big thing without horses coming towards you, and it desn't look like there is an assailable spot. It could wasily provide cover against swords and arrows, and it's not like heavy cannon was all that great back then.
Battles being changed? Well... I'm no expert at renaissaince times, but whoever uses it and develops it effectively first will cause all the others to jump on the idea (especially whoever lost to the tanks).
Oh, and one could just shoot arrows/musket out of it, too. I had the idea to do this TL, but decided against it.
Someone putting it to good use might be Poland. IIRC, they could accept the idea, and they weren't inadept at such things.
Also, pushing this forward might lead to otyher advances in technology earlier, particularly those revolving around the tank (aiding it, destroying it).
 
I could definately see the DaVinci tank being used for attacking fortified positions where the ability to absorb a fair amount of fire would be worth the loss in speed. However, in open field battles it would probably be very vulnerable to being attacked from the flanks and rear.
 
I could definately see the DaVinci tank being used for attacking fortified positions where the ability to absorb a fair amount of fire would be worth the loss in speed. However, in open field battles it would probably be very vulnerable to being attacked from the flanks and rear.

But try to imagine how far tank design would have been today, had the Da Vinci tank been put into operation. Imagine having the british landing a version of the tank in the war of 1812?

Or US Army having tanks in the war against Mexico in 1846? Or the CSA and the USA having tanks in the civilwar?
 
Originally posted by Euroman26
But try to imagine how far tank design would have been today, had the Da Vinci tank been put into operation. Imagine having the british landing a version of the tank in the war of 1812?
Or US Army having tanks in the war against Mexico in 1846? Or the CSA and the USA having tanks in the civilwar?
You're forgetting that in XVIIIth and XIXth century artillery was much better than in Da Vinci's times. Wooden tanks would have been quickly destroyed. Armoured tanks might do a little better, but they would have been too heavy to move. Horses are out of the question, because they would have been obvious target for enemy. So the tanks would have needed some kind of engin. Also they would have needed a lot of iron for armour ( and it wasn't cheap that days).
Theoretically, it might have been possible to build a steam tank at the beginning of XIXth century. However, it would be more a mobile bunker than offensive weapon, extremely expensive, very hard to transport, with very low manouverability and still relatively easy to destroy.
 
How do you reload the guns? Muskets were muzzle loaded back then, it would be pretty difficult to reload in that cramped space. Muskets had very poor accuracy. They were only good to about 50 meters and required a large volley for results. It looks like only 3-4 guns would be pointed at one direction at any given time, making its effect dubious.

A machine with so many guns requires quite an investment. That may not be a very good investment considering the machine can't clear obstacles of any sort. It's impractical to take along for campaigns of maneuver. It's basically a pillbox with a bit of mobility. For the same cost you could probably just build several fixed pillboxes and get the job done with common musketeers.

Basically, unlike tanks of the 20th century, these war machines would be very specialized with little versatility.
 
@ Communist Wizard: good points

But try to imagine how far tank design would have been today, had the Da Vinci tank been put into operation. Imagine having the british landing a version of the tank in the war of 1812?

Or US Army having tanks in the war against Mexico in 1846? Or the CSA and the USA having tanks in the civilwar?
The Hussites armored wagons didn't advance tank development any, so it's not a foregone conclusion that DaVinci tanks would either.

Originally posted by Euroman26

You're forgetting that in XVIIIth and XIXth century artillery was much better than in Da Vinci's times. Wooden tanks would have been quickly destroyed. Armoured tanks might do a little better, but they would have been too heavy to move.
Wooden tanks would be easily destroyed in any time period. If nothing else, block the wheels (using large logs perhaps?) and stack lots of kindling around the bottom. Come to think of it, that could do for iron versions as well.
 
Actually, the tank was pretty workable, but it would have to be used on plains and fields. Not sutiable to Italy, but Russia, Poland, and other cavalry-focused places with good geography would be good battlefields. The glider... not so much.

Hi,

Living in Belgium, I had time (and luck) to visit the exhibition about Leonard de Vinci held in Brussels until beginning of April. da Vinci was quite a genius !

When I saw the models of its flying machine, it reminded me of the glider Lillienthal used at the end of the XIXth century. So I think gliders could have been found earlier only if da Vinci had chosen to further study flight.

The last model I saw missed the tail that Lillienthal used later. But other models of Leonard had such a tail so ...

Something else hat must be taken in account is the use that can be made of such a design, other then being a mere toy for upper levels of society, and a rather dangerous one ! This last one would not have dissuaded adventurous youngsters from taking the risk. But the same danger could also end in a bane put on gliders because some influential family losses a son in the play.

If enough gliders were put in use, nothing forbid that the design evolves into a more secure machine, with at some later stage, the use of the glider by a clever and bold officer to perform recconnaissance and win an important battle. Exact timing is not really that important but say that two centuries after the death of Leonard (around 1700), gliders were relatively common in the sky of Europe. The next step is the development of a small and powerfull enough power source (an engine !), but there would certainly be some test use of rocket as a mean of propulsion for gliders.
 
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