WI: Cymbro-Saxon?

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The Professor

The Professor

@piratedude you shouldn't be labelling Angles and Saxons the same thing.
OTL it took the rise of Mercia mixing Middle Saxons, West Angles, Middle Angles, and the saxon Hwicce, plus East Anglia occasionally grabbing East Saxons and Middle Saxons to create the idea that they are kin. Then there was the Danelaw and Norman Conquest to hammer it home.
Anglo-Saxon was originally a term meaning Anglian Saxons and used to differentiate the Saxons under Angle influence in Britain from those in the Continent.
TTL while you can generate something similar with the East Angles to South Saxons and Cantwara such that that area could be labelled Anglo-Saxon, the Angles of Bernicia are NOT going to be labelled anything-Saxon whatsoever because they aren't Saxons.

Sorry if I sound harsh but it's a pet peeve of mine that people constantly apply post Heptarchy nomenclature to the early settlement.
 
piratedude

piratedude

The Professor said:
@piratedude you shouldn't be labelling Angles and Saxons the same thing.
OTL it took the rise of Mercia mixing Middle Saxons, West Angles, Middle Angles, and the saxon Hwicce, plus East Anglia occasionally grabbing East Saxons and Middle Saxons to create the idea that they are kin. Then there was the Danelaw and Norman Conquest to hammer it home.
Anglo-Saxon was originally a term meaning Anglian Saxons and used to differentiate the Saxons under Angle influence in Britain from those in the Continent.
TTL while you can generate something similar with the East Angles to South Saxons and Cantwara such that that area could be labelled Anglo-Saxon, the Angles of Bernicia are NOT going to be labelled anything-Saxon whatsoever because they aren't Saxons.

Sorry if I sound harsh but it's a pet peeve of mine that people constantly apply post Heptarchy nomenclature to the early settlement.
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No I understand, I've just been using the label for convenience. In setting, while it may be recognized among the educated that there's some relation between the Angloniks and the Dûîreinwir, as the Brythônys label them, due to some linguistic similarities between their older tongues, they aren't seen as kin to each other and their languages have diverged.

The Dûîreinwir have mostly taken on the customs of the Brythônys, including a clan (or Kynn in their own tongue) system, there being 3 major ones (ie: the ruling ones).

@RogueTraderEnthusiast I already linked that video on the previous page lol
 
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Story bit 2
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    • piratedude

    piratedude

    Decided to have fun writing a story bit. Enjoy


    The ship sliced through the waves with a honed edge. One moment rising with the sea, the next diving. Each return to the sea shook them, but the ash keel refused to be broken. That didn't mean much for Hrafen. He knew the ship was built strongly, he helped put it together, but his belly lurched with the crashing of the waves on the beams.

    Three days. Three days since last he saw the last rocks of his home dip below the Horizon; Three days of nothing but old fish, hard bread, and stale beer; three days spent rowing and tacking into a west wind. A three day voyage he was told would only take a day and a night.

    Hrafen spared a sidelong glance to their leader, his shadowed face was fixed on the horizon, eyes keen for some sign. Hrafen’s mind churned in apprehension. He had joined on for the promise of glory and easy riches. Glory he cared little about, what glory ought a carpenter’s son expect? No, all the glory would go to the jarls. But easy riches could fill a mans stomach with meat, could keep a hearth burning, and could give his dear Kelda the fine broaches and bands she deserved. More and more, however, he felt as though he would return empty handed, forced to abandon this raid because Njorđr would not grant them favorable seas.

    The sound of flapping wings broke his gloomy thoughts, and he looked up to spy a pair of black birds, his name sake, circling their small fleet of three ships. He gazed in awe as they flew with grace, working the breeze with more ease than their ships ever could. He followed their flight as best he could while rowing, watching on as they flew. Before long they needed a rest, and they alighted upon the spars of his ship.

    Instantly the headwind that had been resisting their travels calmed, and everyone took notice, even their shadow-faced leader took pause, his solitary eye fixing on the birds as the world itself seemed to come to a halt. In the silence he heard the ravens croak thrice before once again taking to the air. The wind too resumed, this time as a strong easterly gale. A loud cheer rose up from every man as the oars were hauled in, and the canvases let out to catch the favorable wind.

    Hrafen took heart from this favorable omen, surely a sign from Ođinn that they would conquer this day. It was not long before he could once again see a shore; a wide beach, and a lone building with nary a wall to keep his party out.
     
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    • piratedude

    piratedude

    Random late night world building thought: some irish monk/chronicler in the employ of the franks remarked that though st. Patrick drove all the snakes from Ireland, he would have done more good if he banished the brood of serpents that now rule his homeland
     
    Eboraci 1
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    • piratedude

    piratedude

    The Codex Eboraci is perhaps one of the most amazing literary survivals of the early medieval period. Written some time in the 8th century by an anonymous author, the book is a compilation of numerous prose stories and poetic verses of Anglonic myth, and appears to be a work that attempts to form a coherent (canonical if you will) body of the pagan beliefs of the Anglisc people. The Eboraci is frequently compared to its later Norse cousins, the poetic and prose Eddas.

    The book is dedicated to its patron, named Ósric. If the Eboraci was written before 746 AD, it is likely that the patron is King Ósric of Beornice, the last pagan ruler in Britain, and the Codex was part of his attempts to codify the traditional faith of his people. If this is the case, then it is the most substantial literary work written by the pagans themselves, rather than by their christain descendants.
     
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    • piratedude

    piratedude

    IamtheEmps said:
    OOH I like this, I mean atm, we know comparatively little about Anglo-Saxon myths, which I think is a shame.
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    Agreed, and I've heard that it was partly that dearth of A-S myth that inspired tolkien to create the world of middle earth.

    Edit: As to the content of ebroaci, i don't want to get too sucked into actually hashing it all out (perhaps some other time i will), but i have thoughts for the general outline.

    One feature that should be apparent throughout is that the myths have been streamlined in order to provide a signular, canonical version of everything. Obviously, that does not naturally occure in oral traditions.
     
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    piratedude

    piratedude

    The Professor said:
    That probably explains Gandalf then, he's very much akin to Woden who appears to be the prominent deity of the pantheon.
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    Possibly, though you can only take the Gandalf-Woden analogy so far. Id argue that Gandalf is most like woden in The hobbit, but the more tolkien developed him the farther away he moved from that archetype

    Edit: then again, we know so little about the A-S Woden that we assume he's like the ođinn we see in the eddas, when he could be very different
     
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    Eboraci 2
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    • piratedude

    piratedude

    I know i said i wouldn't, but i did anyway because i couldn't get this out of my head.

    The central conflict of the norse world is between the rival families of the Æsir (gods) and the Jotuns (giants), with the Álfr (elves) having little at all said of them to the point that they have become synonymous with the Dvergar (dwarves).


    In the Anglisc world, the conflict between the Ése (gods, singular Ós) and the Ettin (giants, singluar Eoten) only makes up the first two ages of the world, while in the third the gods have defeated the ents, but not their creations, the Aglæca (calamities; monsters).

    Events in the Eboraci is divided into ages(Eldu), based on the lifetime of certain individuals or peoples.

    The first age is the age of Ysmir, the first living thing. This age ends when the Ése battle and slay him.

    The second is the age of the Ettin, born from sweat Ysmir shed during his fight with the Ése. Many things are created at this time, including the seven worlds and the elves. This age ends when the last and most cunning of the Ettins, (loki) begets the four Aglæca (calamities): a horse (sleapor; slippery), a wolf (felwulf; foul wolf)), a drake (Erđefretende draca/ Erđe Wyrm; World-devouring dragon/Earth Wyrm), and a living corpse (Hella). As his final act, the eoten binds them with the wyrd (fate) of the gods.

    The Third age is the age of men. It is only after the calamities are born that men are created by the gods to be warriors against the calamities in the final battle against Ysmir’s descendants. This is the current age according the Anglisc, and it is in this section of eboraci that the deeds of their heroes are recorded.

    After this is a collection of miscellaneous poems in praise of the gods, perhaps intended as a pagan book of psalms.

    A fourth age is alluded to, but no poem or story deal with it in any great detail. What is known is that mankind will be saved “with in thunors’ oak”, and for this reason thunor is honored most among men.
     
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    • The Professor

    The Professor

    Some better spellings for you:
    Plural of Ós is Ése.
    E(o)ten (Ettin) is better than Ent.
    Eldu is the Anglian spelling not Ieldu (ie spellings are pretty much West Saxon).
    Felwulf works for Fell Wolf.
    No sure what you meant by "Arđfriteþ" but if "Earthdevouring" then "Erðefretende"
     
    piratedude

    piratedude

    The Professor said:
    Some better spellings for you:
    Plural of Ós is Ése.
    E(o)ten (Ettin) is better than Ent.
    Eldu is the Anglian spelling not Ieldu (ie spellings are pretty much West Saxon).
    Felwulf works for Fell Wolf.
    No sure what you meant by "Arđfriteþ" but if "Earthdevouring" then "Erðefretende"
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    Thanks! I knew the cite i used was Likey going by the west saxon standard, given thats what came to prominence, but i don't know where to look for the other dialects. And yes, i was going for worldeater/earthdevouring.

    Analytical Engine said:
    I'm assuming it's a reference to the Jormungand's equivalent in Anglo-Saxon mythology. What would be a suitable translation for "World (Girdling) Serpent"?
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    The Professor said:
    ErðYmbgyrdende Wyrm but they'd probably call it the Erðe Wyrm or Middangeard Wyrm.
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    I was thinking like a mix between Miđgarđsormr and Niđhöggr. In anlgisc myth, Erðefretende escapes being bound by the gods (as his siblings are) by escaping into the ocean. From there he gnaws/eats at the roots of the world untill he will break into Hell, where his sister Hella is imprisoned, and the doom of the gods begins in earnest. This is why thunor hunts/fishes for him.

    And while yes, the poems will call him The Erđe wyrm, "earth worm" isnt quite as terrifying as "world eater" is, is it?
     
    piratedude

    piratedude

    Oh, and any suggestions for the Anglisc loki? I tried looking through words for lock, bind, or tangle, but none of them really seemed to fit as a name
     
    The Professor

    The Professor

    piratedude said:
    Oh, and any suggestions for the Anglisc loki? I tried looking through words for lock, bind, or tangle, but none of them really seemed to fit as a name
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    Perhaps go for kennings? Maybe it's taboo to say the name. Compare how the Abrahamic Satan doesn't really have a name in the scriptures but titles.
     
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