WI: Cultural impact of Portuguese Ryukyus and Catholic Kyushu

Inspired by playing a MEIOU and Taxes campaign as Portugal and my anime fantasies. Also read several Portugal and Japan-based threads.

In this Portuguese Asia wank, Portugal has the Ryukyu islands in the 1570s as a protectorate and then a colony a century later and has Nagasaki and Hirado as concessions like Macau in China. From there, Jesuit missionaries have spread all over Kyushu and the Otomo clan becomes predominant in the island. Meanwhile, the Uesugi clan dominates Japan instead of the Tokugawa or Oda and imposes sakoku except for Kyushu, where the Portuguese get to keep their concessions and have a monopoly there with the Spanish due to their cultural and religious influence.

I was wondering how this would impact Japanese culture, especially pop culture like anime. I can definitely see:
  • A larger Japanese presence in Latin America an the Philippines from Kyushu
  • Syncretized Catholicism with the old Japanese Shinto beliefs in the countryside
  • Intermarriage and a creation of a Luso-Japanese class in Nagasaki
  • Strong regional mentality in the island, especially if the Meiji restoration still happens. Expect Japan A and Japan B based on this concept.
  • Probably a more rigid separation of the Kyushu dialect from the rest of the Japanese dialects with some Portuguese and Spanish influence?
I also wonder what would be the effects on the Ryukyu islands if it became a Portuguese colony too.
 
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When you say that kyushu becomes exempted from Sakoku, you mean all of Kyushu? I find that hard to conceive in any timeline where Japan still tried to rid itself of outside influences.

Maybe, if there's a huge Portugal Wank in Asia as you suggest, the Dutch become unable to set up trade with Japan. In that case, I could see Sakoku Japan allowing the Portuguese to stay (simply because they need to trade with someone), but they would surely confine them to Nagasaki in that case. Portugal could certainly take the Ryukyus, though that would piss off China a bit (which is something the Portuguese definetely do not want to do), but, if they were strong enoug, they could just say screw it.

In a scenario such as this one, I could see a massive influx of Japanese christian refugees to the Portuguese Ryukyus. That should be the start of any discussion about culture.
 
When you say that kyushu becomes exempted from Sakoku, you mean all of Kyushu? I find that hard to conceive in any timeline where Japan still tried to rid itself of outside influences.

Maybe, if there's a huge Portugal Wank in Asia as you suggest, the Dutch become unable to set up trade with Japan. In that case, I could see Sakoku Japan allowing the Portuguese to stay (simply because they need to trade with someone), but they would surely confine them to Nagasaki in that case. Portugal could certainly take the Ryukyus, though that would piss off China a bit (which is something the Portuguese definetely do not want to do), but, if they were strong enoug, they could just say screw it.

In a scenario such as this one, I could see a massive influx of Japanese christian refugees to the Portuguese Ryukyus. That should be the start of any discussion about culture.

I mean all of Kyushu, but due to gradual missionary activity over time in my Portuguese Asia wank, I could see Japan give up and just simply confine all Catholics to only Kyushu and its adjacent smaller islands and let Portuguese trade in Kyushu's ports if they have the upper hand in negotiations. I read threads about alternate clans taking the Shogunate like the Oda but I think it would vary.
 
my anime fantasies

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On topic, a lot of things will change, definitely. Sakoku, contrary to popular belief, didn't completely cut the Japanese off from the world, but allowed it to control what influences could come in, such as the Dutch Rangaku studies. Having a Portuguese-influence Kyushu flies in the face of that, so it won't be an Edo era as we remember it, and certainly nothing recognizable onwards. Culture-wise, the Japanese Christians IOTL that fled during the persecution of the Tokugawa gradually assimilated into the native cultures due to their lack of numbers. If they consolidate in the Ryukyus or some other outpost and keep up their numbers, we could see their Kyushu dialect and Christianized Japanese culture branching out due to foreign influences, not unlike the Afrikaners and their tongue.
 
This is my concept for my TL the Spanish give majority of Luzon and Celebes to Portugal and plot to reopen Japan.
 
I will point out that the possibility of conquest of the Ryuku islands was quickly studied by Fernao Mendes Pinto in chapter 143 of his peregrinations.
He says it could be done with 2000 men and could be "more fruitful than India" if well managed.
By 1544 there also seems to be a couple christians in the place, although they don't seem to be natives
 
Inspired by playing a MEIOU and Taxes campaign as Portugal and my anime fantasies. Also read several Portugal and Japan-based threads.

In this Portuguese Asia wank, Portugal has the Ryukyu islands in the 1570s as a protectorate and then a colony a century later and has Nagasaki and Hirado as concessions like Macau in China. From there, Jesuit missionaries have spread all over Kyushu and the Otomo clan becomes predominant in the island. Meanwhile, the Uesugi clan dominates Japan instead of the Tokugawa or Oda and imposes sakoku except for Kyushu, where the Portuguese get to keep their concessions and have a monopoly there with the Spanish due to their cultural and religious influence.

I was wondering how this would impact Japanese culture, especially pop culture like anime. I can definitely see:
  • A larger Japanese presence in Latin America an the Philippines from Kyushu
  • Syncretized Catholicism with the old Japanese Shinto beliefs in the countryside
  • Intermarriage and a creation of a Luso-Japanese class in Nagasaki
  • Strong regional mentality in the island, especially if the Meiji restoration still happens. Expect Japan A and Japan B based on this concept.
  • Probably a more rigid separation of the Kyushu dialect from the rest of the Japanese dialects with some Portuguese and Spanish influence?
I also wonder what would be the effects on the Ryukyu islands if it became a Portuguese colony too.

Okay, I hope I do not come off as a killjoy on this topic, but if you've read what I've posted on the Catholic Japan thread. Taking the Ryukyu's risks angering Ming China, as the Ryukyu kingdom is a Chinese tributary. Ming had recently started fighting back against the Woku, something like this could stir the Jiajing Emperor to act. The biggest problem with this idea is having Catholicism spread across Kyushu, and somehow having a separate Kyushu that answers to the Portuguese

The Portuguese had very appalling luck with the favorites they picked in Japan. The Ouchi who at least allowed Christians into Yamaguchi were weakened an internal rebellion went south and they were beaten by the anti-catholic Mori clan, this effective stopped Catholicism's headway into Honshu for a while. The Otomo only looked strong on paper, their vassals could be troublesome, Sorin was not all that interested in expansion, and he had a serious threat in the Ryuzoji of Hizen province, and the Otomo was the strongest Christian daimyo mind you. The Arima whose vassals controlled Nagasaki and the Hirado clan of Hirado castle were not also much weaker but again at the mercy of the Ryuzoji clan.

However, there's plenty of problems that can pop up with Portugal that can make this a very unlikely outcome. First the Portuguese don't seem to have the strength to rein in a clan if it gets too powerful, or even enforce order in the first place, Kyushu seems to be at the very end of their supply limit. Two Portugal can still have serious issues close to home. The Ottoman influence in Morrocco that lead to the disastrous battle of Alcacer Quibir is still a possibility, speaking of which Portugal needs to remain independent and Sabestian needs an heir or else the throne could end up in Spain's hands as in OTL.
 
Taking the Ryukyu's risks angering Ming China, as the Ryukyu kingdom is a Chinese tributary. Ming had recently started fighting back against the Woku, something like this could stir the Jiajing Emperor to act.

Well, yes it can anger the Chinese, so I sort of think it can bring a risk. Seizing the Ryukyu islands during the Ming collapse would have been better for the Portuguese if they have a grip in Kyushu.

The Ottoman influence in Morrocco that lead to the disastrous battle of Alcacer Quibir is still a possibility, speaking of which Portugal needs to remain independent and Sabestian needs an heir or else the throne could end up in Spain's hands as in OTL.

My Portuguese Asia wank has Sebastian winning Alcácer Quibir and having an heir, but in my MEIOU and Taxes run the Afonsines still run Portugal (Historical plausibility in EU4 can be quite crazy sometimes)


I know there's lots of butterflies but for TTL the Ryukyu islands (Known in Portuguese as the Nova Açores or Ruchu TTL) remains a Portuguese colony until around the 1970s-ish (TTL Portugal is a constitutional monarchy) when it gains independence. In the end the Ryukyuan people are pretty much a Portugalized, mainly Catholic (syncretized with native Religion) Japonic ethnic group with some Chinese influences. It can probably unite with Japan via a referendum but personally there's too much divergences for that to happen.

Nagasaki and Hirado remain Portuguese concessions until a Meiji counterpart arrives, and TTL Japan has historical, political and cultural distinctions that separate Kyushu from the rest of the country (like the Poland A and B analogy I made earlier), as a staunchly Catholic, somewhat westernized area. Nagasaki is the largest city TTL with Fukuoka being the second largest.

Side note: The prevalence of Portugal-based threads in AH.com is surprising, especially with the TLs Viriato and Lusitania made. There's a big Portuguese community in the area where I live (I'm Filipino of Chinese ancestry but Iberian and East Asian history intrigues me a lot).
 
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