WI: CSA a Cotton/Tobacco/Oil Banana Republic?
- Thread starter Lycaon pictus
- Start date
I had actually thought about this very thing a few days ago, and I must say you put it very well. Great minds think alike and all that
A Veepship without term-limits opens a world of opportunities for a dictator. My only comment is that the Boss probably wouldn't bump the president off, he'd just have somebody pliable in charge.
I could honestly see Thomas G. Jones running with the support of the military and poor whites, while at the same time probably trying to take a softer line on slaves to try and alleviate discourage slave revolts.
Team him up with some bland, gentlemanly Old South planter as a sop to the aristocracy, and you have a revolving ticket made in heaven.
Could we see the CS VP gain another title? Chairman of the Board of Generals or some such military title?
It would then lead to the CSP becoming less and less executive and more along the lines of European separate Heads of State and Governement.
David S Poepoe
Banned
The observation about the 'Vice-President for Life' bit is as implausible and unlikely as it is plausible and likely. Any loop hole that exists within the CS Constitution probably exists within the US Constitution. The establishment of political parties and party platforms will ensure that the 'loop hole' couldn't be exploited in such a fashion.
Except that a victorious CSA is a diseased little bubble nation which will base itself on stifling dissent. Insisting that it's going to wind up "like the USA--only, smaller, and with slaves" because the Constitution is based on the USA's is an act of willful naivete.
There is no such loophole in the US constitution. The maximium anyone can remain in the executive offices is 10 years either as a VP then Pres, or vice-versa.
Wolfpaw
Banned
Prior to 1951, there were no term-limits on the US presidency, so nobody ever had to search for/use a loophole. The CS Constitution explicitly places a single-term limit on the office of the presidency but does not place one on the vice presidency.
So long as the veep never actually serves as president, he will be eligible to hold the vice presidency ad infinitum.
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In the UK people could serve as Prime Minister theoretically forever, but it didn't develop as a dictatorship. Americans attribute far too much of their democractic stability to their constitution. It's culture, values and social norms that matter. Britain shows if you have them in place you don't really need much of a constitution, and plenty of Africa shows that a constitution won't stop a dictator taking over if you don't have them.
As for the CSA, I suspect the mindset among the powerful planter class would be similar to 18th Century British Tories: they don't want a powerful despot sticking their nose in their interests, but equally they don't want mob rule of the plebs. You'd probably get a suffrage of about 10% of the population. It's then possible an Andrew Jackson/Vladimir Putin type could take-over using resentment of the planter elite, but a lot would depend on chance.
Even with war going, making it to high command in the Confederate Army was usually based on seniority and connections, not merit. The one time Davis ignored this, he got John Bell Hood for army command, which was not a success.
That is not guaranteed even if the Confederacy creates their own equivalent version West Point. Examination of Union graduates or the British officer corps does not show any trend towards being proponents of modernization, professional, or aware of the military applications of industrialization.
David S Poepoe
Banned
And it is willful naivete, or close mindedness, to insist that the CSA will base itself on stifling dissent. It could develop in a myriad of ways.
Really? Expecting a nation that has already BANNED talk of abolition, driven away citizens who are abolitionists, and included a "no abolition" clause in its constitution to continue in this vein--something it shows ever indication of doing--is "naivete"? Especially when compared to the belief that since the rest of that constitution is based on ours, therefore the CSA is just going to parallel early USA development?
Now, I admit a victorious CSA becoming a dictatorship is not inevitable. It could merely stay the corrupt oligarchy it is, until it collapses. But the ideological foundations and the political situation of a CSA make a dictatorship emerging at some point highly likely--and the longer the CSA exists, the more likely it becomes.
Now, I admit a victorious CSA becoming a dictatorship is not inevitable. It could merely stay the corrupt oligarchy it is, until it collapses. But the ideological foundations and the political situation of a CSA make a dictatorship emerging at some point highly likely--and the longer the CSA exists, the more likely it becomes.
who's to say its going to collapse? or that it will become a dictatorship?
Snake Featherston
Banned
The CSA saw absence of partisan politics as a strength, and so long as slavery is the key facet of its society you can forget any type of actual party politics, as like in the antebellum Southern USA everybody's gonna love the Peculiar Institution by bayonet point if necessary.
Yes, and the USSR could have done so, too. Nobody turns it into an anarcho-capitalist trainwreck in any ATL that I've seen. People give the CSA the ability to completely handwave its own constitution and existing political system without the slightest bit of turmoil all the time.
Snake Featherston
Banned
To look at Israel, a democracy that has a large, restive population that puts it in a siege mentality can end up a very fucked-up place. The CSA is built on the fundamental premise that 1/3 the state is inferior property held by the other 2/3, and that basis is not an encouraging one for anyone except Francos and Francias.