WI: Could Carlo Visconti's descendants have claimed Milan?

[Kellan Sullivan]

Carlo Visconti, Signore di Parma was the third legitimate son of Bernabo Visconti. He married the widowed Comtesse de Foix, Beatrice d'Armagnac and had four children (Marco, b.1383, d.?; Verde, b.1384, (stillborn); Bona (b.1385) married the Chevalier de Montauban; and Giovanni Carlo (called Gianpiccinino) d.1418). My question is simple: when Gian Galeazzo Visconti's sons died without legitimate issue, if Marco/Giovanni Carlo had left male descendants, could they have claimed the duchy of Milan?

@isabella @Bluetooth @The Undead Martyr @Irene

 

[isabella]

In theory yes, they would be surely credible claimants together with Valentina’s son and Francesco Sforza&Bianca Maria.

 

[LordKalvan]

No. Carlo left Parma after the capture (and subsequent death in prison) of his father Barnabo and his brothers Marco and Rodolfo. Carlo fled to Verona (his mother was Regina della Scala) , and subsequently to Bavaria (his sister Elisabetta married in 1395 duke Ernst Wittelbach). In 1391, Carlo signed an agreement in Venice with Gian Galeazzo, renouncing all his hereditary claims in exchange for an annuity.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

No. Carlo left Parma after the capture (and subsequent death in prison) of his father Barnabo and his brothers Marco and Rodolfo. Carlo fled to Verona (his mother was Regina della Scala) , and subsequently to Bavaria (his sister Elisabetta married in 1395 duke Ernst Wittelbach). In 1391, Carlo signed an agreement in Venice with Gian Galeazzo, renouncing all his hereditary claims in exchange for an annuity.

Strange. According to an Italian source it says that only his brother, Mastino, his half-brothers, Astorre and another one, agreed to this. Says that he refused to agree to it because Gian Galeazzo's deal was also that he [Carlo] would agree to what essentially amounted to house arrest. Carlo would settle in a German/Italian city of his own choice, but would be unable to leave WITHOUT Gian Galeazzo's permission.

The source also notes that Stefan of Bavaria, Carlo's one-time brother-in-law and Rupprecht of the Palatinate (German king) were BOTH interested in helping Carlo claim Milan (or at least to use him as a cat's paw to stir up trouble for Gian Galeazzo

 

[LordKalvan]

I found that after the agreement of 1391, Gian Galeazzo relented a bit and allowed Carlo to stay either in Bavaria or in Venice. The sources I did find are not very detailed when mentioning Carlo: the last certain mention is that he joined the Bavarian invasion of 1390. I doubt that his in-laws were truly serious in helping Carlo, most likely he was used as a nuisance factor. There is no way that his theoretical descendants might stake a claim in the Milanese succession 50 years after his exile. If nothing else, who would be willing to support them with money and troops? Both Sforza and France had a better claim, and at least the strength to uphold it

 

[The Undead Martyr]

The claim exists, which is more than could be said about Old Frizs right to Silesia. But would it be given weight by the involved powers is another question- Renaissance Italy cared even less about bloodlines than their European contemporaries, and such matters largely came down to whether anyone was willing to back such a claim.

So not impossible but difficult.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

The claim exists, which is more than could be said about Old Frizs right to Silesia. But would it be given weight by the involved powers is another question- Renaissance Italy cared even less about bloodlines than their European contemporaries, and such matters largely came down to whether anyone was willing to back such a claim.

So not impossible but difficult.

Didn't Gian Galeazzo Visconti's bastard son, Gabriele also lodge a claim that caused him to be beheaded? Or was that just in a TL that he tried that?

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

I found that after the agreement of 1391, Gian Galeazzo relented a bit and allowed Carlo to stay either in Bavaria or in Venice. The sources I did find are not very detailed when mentioning Carlo: the last certain mention is that he joined the Bavarian invasion of 1390. I doubt that his in-laws were truly serious in helping Carlo, most likely he was used as a nuisance factor. There is no way that his theoretical descendants might stake a claim in the Milanese succession 50 years after his exile. If nothing else, who would be willing to support them with money and troops? Both Sforza and France had a better claim, and at least the strength to uphold it

The link I spoke of