WI: Continued Carolingians on the French Throne

You'd still have a very strong nobiliar opposition to Carolingians. With the election of Eudes, Robert and Rudolf, and the general opposition of Ottonians, Louis V would have at best a troubled reign.

Frankly, I don't think he could last 20 years without at least some big attempt at removing him, while he won't be alone on this.

Not that a return of Carolingians isn't doable with Louis of Lower Lotharingia (we discussed it a bit with manuel), but Carolingian kingship was enough fragilized by the late Xth, that you need some major Robertian crash (Robert II not living up to be crowned during his father's reign, for exemple)

Carolingian succession would be really safe only when Louis's hypothetical son could inherit (probably crowned during his father reign) and with Robertians being significantly weakened : Blois recieving the Dukedom of Franks, in all probability (which is going to be problematic, as Robertians already began to decline in Western France while Hugues was crowned, and that Blois'star was rising).

The main changes would be to see French kings still trying to get Lotharingia, or at least part of it, as almost all Late Carolingians did. Meaning an Imperial/French early opposition.
Eventually, Carolingians wouldn't benefit from much royal demesne, and may have to play even more importantly on the political balance to hope keeping enough power. Basically, doing what Capetians did IOTL but with a more important rivalty on their eastern borders.

(Arguably, it could as well meant less involvement into Western French nobles's war, as with Normans, Flemish, Robertians and Angevines; while a royal support for a given side, mostly driven by the search of a balance, would still be a given)
 
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You'd still have a very strong nobiliar opposition to Carolingians. With the election of Eudes, Robert and Rudolf, and the general opposition of Ottonians, Louis V would have at best a troubled reign.

Frankly, I don't think he could last 20 years without at least some big attempt at removing him, while he won't be alone on this.

Not that a return of Carolingians isn't doable with Louis of Lower Lotharingia (we discussed it a bit with manuel), but Carolingian kingship was enough fragilized by the late Xth, that you need some major Robertian crash (Robert II not living up to be crowned during his father's reign, for exemple)

Carolingian succession would be really safe only when Louis's hypothetical son could inherit (probably crowned during his father reign) and with Robertians being significantly weakened : Blois recieving the Dukedom of Franks, in all probability (which is going to be problematic, as Robertians already began to decline in Western France while Hugues was crowned, and that Blois'star was rising).

The main changes would be to see French kings still trying to get Lotharingia, or at least part of it, as almost all Late Carolingians did. Meaning an Imperial/French early opposition.
Eventually, Carolingians wouldn't benefit from much royal demesne, and may have to play even more importantly on the political balance to hope keeping enough power. Basically, doing what Capetians did IOTL but with a more important rivalty on their eastern borders.

(Arguably, it could as well meant less involvement into Western French nobles's war, as with Normans, Flemish, Robertians and Angevines; while a royal support for a given side, mostly driven by the search of a balance, would still be a given)

All true, Louis V is going to face a war with his barons and in order to save his crown will have to make concessions (the Dukedom of the Franks to Blois like LSCatilina said).And the Western Frankish Carolingian will want to make a bid for Lotharingia. But Lotharigia is ruled by the house of Ardenne (the most loyal supporters of the Ottonians) and by his uncle Charles of Lower Lorraine, who was given Lower Lorraine by the Ottonians in order to serve as a shield against West Frankish claims. So in the end, there is trouble down the road plus a showdown with the HRE (something Hugues Capet didn't have to face since he had no claim to any part of the HRE).
 
Just find a way to have king Charles III not fall info the trap And be imprisoned but have him instead trap Robert (future Robert I) and his allies or defeat them in battle.

He then confiscates a large part of their fiefs and Estates and he remains king of West Francia and Lotharingia.
 
Charles III couldn't do that : not without major opposition from French nobility, at least.

Honores were unalienable at this point, and more importantly, were directly tied up with land. Trying to confiscate these would result in open revolt (not unlike what happened in 858, whom Robert le Fort was part of).
When Charles the Fat becames emperor, the royal/imperial aristocracy is to deeply rooted.

Remember that Robert's revolt began because the honor as Chelles' abbot was took from him. (Of course that's the casus belli, with more reasons at hand). Eventually his son could count on his clientele and nobiliar solidarities to get rid of the Carolingian.

The almost-disapperance of the Carolingian dynasty, in France or Germany, eventually made the election of non-Carolingian (partially based on prestige) avaible (as it happened later with Hugues, when the choice was quite limited as well), so it would probably end the same (altough probably with a Bosonid king).

Preventing the death of Louis III (maybe not Carloman, if you want to keep Western Francia unified) may be a more plausible PoD for the survival of Carolingians
 
Arguably, if you manage to prevent Robertian political decline in the second half of the Xth century (which is partially due to Eudes de Blois' shenanigans), meaning they're still the prime power in Western France (IOTL, their clientele, as in Anjou, became independent de facto), the great nobles may have more trouble choosing Hugues II as king.

That said, with Charles of Lower Lotharingia's "reputation", it would be hard to get it recognized with a still really strong Robertian faction. Maybe Thibault de Blois, that would "warm up" the throne before a Carolingian return with Louis?
 
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