WI Constantinople held a little longer?

In 29 May 1453 Ottomans entered Constantinople after a 2 months siege through an unguarded gate (called Kerkoporta)... When the first turkish flags raised upon the towers chaos ensued and every resistanse ceased...
WI the defenders retreated and organised an second line of defense in the old Constantinian Walls (which were as good as the Theodosian Walls though not as thick...) while the Emperor or Grand Duke Notaras delayed them long enough so the others could organise a second defensive line?
Is it possible to repeal the Ottoman attack?
Constantinople would have fell but could Constantine XI buy some extra time by reorganising defense in Constantinian Walls?
 
(First post. Hello, all!)

Once the Janisaries were inside the walls, Constantinople was doomed. It's only hope of survival was with its walls and the ability to keep Ottoman ships out of the harbor. Once the Ottomans bypassed that, it was all moot. Even if a second defensive line could have been formed, it would have been a matter of hours, not days or weeks, before the Ottomans overwhelmed it. They didn't have the manpower or firepower to repel any assault that breached the walls.

No, the better question is "what if the Roman Catholic Church had come to Constantine's aid?" Constantine appealed to the Pope, and got nowhere. If the Pope had answered with money, troops, weapons or all of the above, it becomes a much more open question as to whether Constantinople could have held on. I suspect it still would have fallen, but it's hardly a certainty.
 
Constantinople

It was already doomed. The western European powers were not interested in saving it, for the most part. The Turks held just about everything around it. The Byzantine empire was simply beyound hope in 1453.
 
Once the Janisaries were inside the walls, Constantinople was doomed

I disagree ,for several reasons.

Firstly , this was not the first time that islamic armies had threatened the walls of constantinople. there were in fact over 20 seiges of the city (and at least one sacking during the third crusade) of which none had successfuly breeched the walls. The mere prescence of the army , however greatly it outnumbered the defenders , does not presume defeat.

secondly ,the ottoman army, however vast ,would have been useless had it not been for a significant amount of innovation on behalf of mehmet II. the use of oversized seige cannons to cripple the vast walls was a turning point in history , effectively ending the days of the castle-fortress. But it was an innovation and there was no guarrentee it would work. If the cannons had cracked (as cannons in this period did regularly) then mehmet would have had significant difficulty replacing them. As for using them against an inner line of defence, this would have been tricky ,the inner walls were surrounded by development , clearing space and moving the cannon into position in such an environment would have bee unteniable. However the establiahment of a defence line of this nature was unlikely , the byzantines had too few troops.

as well as this there was the role of the ottoman navy. Thier inability to control the waters around the city was a key factor in the early stages of the battle. with a allied fleet in the goldern horn ready to sally against a amphibious operation , the Byzantines could afford to move the few troops they had to the landward walls. to counter this Mehmet had galleys moved OVERLAND and into the golden horn behind the allied fleet in secret , forcing them to flee. had the allies been able to react in time and stop this smaller fleet from compromising them , or had mehmet not dreamed it up , then it is arguable that the final assault in the Theodosian walls ,already a bloodbath, would have turned into a rout.

Thirdly , there was the untimely injury of the Geonosian commander Giovanni Giustiniani on the walls. His loss caused the Essential Geonosian mercanaries to retreat to the harbour ,loosing the brilliant defensive mind of Giovanni , and the loss of the best trained ,best equipped men on the walls. i believe that had he remained in command ,backed up by reinforcements from the walls ,then he would have turned the killing grounds between the inner and outer walls into a slaughter. Venitian troops at the battle used small hand cannon as we do shotguns , blowing away 20 or more ottomans at a time...

with the loss of significant chunks of his infantry during several assaults on the walls ,and particularly during this last charge , it is arguable that the already questionable loyalty of mehmets troops would have been pushed too far , resulting in mutiny or the empowerment of several elements of the ottoman command that favoured retreat.

On the other hand ,whilst the fall of constantinople in 1453 was not inevitable , i suspect its eventual collapse was. the byzantine empire had been in retreat for centureis leading up to 1453 and without significant aid from the west , im almost certain that another siege would have toppled it before the end of the 15th century

(guess who got a book about this last christmas:D)

Sir Scott
-Stood on the walls of Justinian
 

Keenir

Banned
Firstly , this was not the first time that islamic armies had threatened the walls of constantinople.

true.

there were in fact over 20 seiges of the city (and at least one sacking during the third crusade) of which none had successfuly breeched the walls. The mere prescence of the army , however greatly it outnumbered the defenders , does not presume defeat.

surrounding the city helps.

with the loss of significant chunks of his infantry during several assaults on the walls ,and particularly during this last charge , it is arguable that the already questionable loyalty of mehmets troops would have been pushed too far , resulting in mutiny or the empowerment of several elements of the ottoman command that favoured retreat.

question - wouldn't they have been killed in the Civil War?

On the other hand ,whilst the fall of constantinople in 1453 was not inevitable , i suspect its eventual collapse was.

how long can a lone city survive when its completely surrounded?
 
How about reorganising defense in Constantinian Walls and with the help of some diplomacy/espionage spread unrest to Mehmet's troops? Maybe causing a mutiny?
Could this helped?
 
how about have Constantine accept Orban's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orban) help instead of rejecting it. That way at least the Ottoman's wouldn't have had the huge siege cannons that they used and Constantinople could have held out for a few more years perhaps. In the long run though it was doomed by this stage
 
question - wouldn't they have been killed in the Civil War?

I was thinking more of mehmets advisors. in particular Halil Pasha, who had opposed the siege from the start

how long can a lone city survive when its completely surrounded?

A suprisingly long time. especially when its taken into consideration that A) constantinople had its own water supply and plenty of food and B) that there were farms within the walls and a reletively small civilan population

as well as this the ottoman naval blockade around the city was tenuous , and there were several points at which grain from the ukraine was brought into the city under the noses of the ottoman galleys

Sir Scott
-BullS**ter extroadanaire
 
Halil Zaghanos Pasha was Mehmet's Vizier and he was bribed by Constantine XI to call off the siege persuade Mehmet II to impose a tribute and leave...
When Mehmet II discovered the gold in Halil's tent he hanged him (Mehmet was on the verge to accept Halil's proposition when he discovered the treason... legend says that Halil was betrayed by one of his daughters who was in love with Mehmet II...)
 

Hecatee

Donor
I think one of the important consequences would be that more rich nobles of the constantinian elite would choose to leave for the West with more of their precious books and our knowledge of the ancient world would be better and the Renaissance would be even more powerful and begin in more places than historically, southern italy could also get richer than historically.
 
i think how long Byzantium lasted for is rather irrelevant, by 1453 its was reduced to a small area of land around the bosporus, even then it was an ottoman vassal
 
John Hunyadi was close enough to respond if Constantinople held a little longer if a second line of defense was organised in Constantinian Walls...
By defending Constantinian Walls Ottomans would be in a difficult situation.. Since thay can move their huge guns through Theodosian Walls and cavalry would be useless... Its like the fight in Berlin in 1945... u have to demolish everything so your guns and cavalry pass through...
 

Sargon

Donor
Monthly Donor
i think how long Byzantium lasted for is rather irrelevant, by 1453 its was reduced to a small area of land around the bosporus, even then it was an ottoman vassal

Well, to be fair it also consisted of some islands and the Morea.

Trebizond was a Byzantine state, but not part of the Empire. However, it was the last fragment with roots to the old Empire to be finally conquered in 1461.


Sargon
 
If Constantine XI retreated safely to Constantinian Walls Ottomans had to use old methods of siege since they couldnt pass their guns from Theodosian Walls (unless they demolished them...) Constantinople would have held longer but eventually would fell from hunger since all granaries and farms were between Theodosian and Constantinian Walls... My question is could Constantinople held long enough for Hunyadi to descend and strike Mehmet's army from behind?
Besides there were reserve troops behind Constantinian Walls in Augustaeum and Hagia Sophia...
 
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